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From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
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Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_OoL_=E2=80=93_out_at_first_base=3F?=
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2024 08:29:00 -0600
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On 12/8/2024 11:54 PM, MarkE wrote:
> We need prebiotic formation and supply of nucleotides for RNA world, and 
> other models at some stage. The scope of the problem of the supply of 
> these precursors is prone to underestimation.
> 
> Nucleotides are chemically challenging in terms of the prebiotic 
> synthesis and assembly of their three constituents of nitrogenous base, 
> sugar and phosphate group.
> 
> Harder again are the requirements for supply of these building blocks. 
> You need (eventually) all canonical bases in sufficient concentration, 
> purity, chirality, activation, distribution, location, etc.
> 
> But the greatest problem I think is this: time. How long must you 
> maintain the supply described above in order to assemble a self- 
> replicating RNA strand? And even if you managed that, how much more time 
> is needed before reaching a protocell capable of self-synthesising 
> nucleotides? One million years? One hundred million years?
> 
> A hypothised little warm pond with wetting/drying cycles (say) must 
> provide a far-from-equilibrium system...for a million years...or 
> hundreds of millions of years. You can’t pause the process, because any 
> developing polymers will fall apart and reset the clock.
> 
> What are the chances of that kind of geological and environmental 
> stability and continuity?
> 
> Therefore, the formation of an autonomous protocell naturalistically has 
> vanishingly small probability.
> 

So how much in denial did you have to dive in order to come back with 
this argument?  Willful ignorance is lying to yourself.

Explain how you have reconciled the fact that the origin of life on this 
planet is not Biblical, so you would be found to be worshiping the wrong 
designer if the origin of life on earth requires some other god's help? 
It would be the wrong god.  Right?

The gap denial doesn't do you any good when the gaps do not support the 
Biblical version of creation.  You have to start admitting that the 
Bible is wrong, and can't be trusted on these matters, so there is no 
reason to claim some god is needed to fill that gap.  The other 
creationists on TO got that from the Top Six, so what kind of lies do 
you have to keep telling yourself to avoid that?

Most creationists have accepted that you can't rely on the Bible to be 
correct about the creation.  It has been known for a very long time that 
the earth is not flat, there is no firmament above the earth that the 
designer has to open to let the rain fall through.  The earth is not the 
center of the universe.  The order of creation described in Genesis is 
wrong.  There is no reason for the gap denial any longer.  You are not 
supporting the existence of the Biblical designer doing this.  You are 
just in conflict with creationists like Denton that think that his 
designer got the ball rolling with the Big Bang and it has all unfolded 
into what we have today, and creationists like Denton don't care if you 
are right or wrong.  Whether you are right or wrong obviously does not 
matter to science.  Science has to deal with what exists.

The Biblical god is not the one that fills the existing origin of life 
gap.  You are just arguing against the existence of the god described in 
the Bible.  The other creationists on TO recognized the fact that if 
some legitimate ID science was ever accomplished it would just be more 
science to deny because that designer would not be the Biblical 
designer.  The last TO IDiots no longer support the ID scam.  They are 
still creationists, but they do not want to believe in the designer that 
fills the Top Six gaps supporting intelligent design.  The origin of 
life is #3.

It does look like there was an RNA phase before the genetic code 
evolved.  The fact is that no one knows what the first self replicating 
molecules were.  Once these self replicating molecules became large 
enough they would have catalytic ability dependent on their three 
dimensional structure and not only dependent on their reactive chemical 
parts.  Before RNA my take is that there were self replicating molecules 
that would evolve secondary catalytic activities that supported their 
replication.  They could have evolved the ability to make lipids and 
formed lipid bilayers.  They probably could have started to make 
nucleotides.  They would have used them for the same function that they 
are still used today.  Nucleotides are very efficient energy storage and 
transfer molecules.  ATP is still the main energy coin in the cell, but 
the other nucleotides are also used as energy transfer molecules in 
various chemical reactions.  Life could have evolved for ATP to have 
that function.  RNA polymers would just be the initial means to store 
nucleotides so that they were less likely to leak out of the first 
cells.  Those polymers would have the opportunity to evolve replicating 
ability due to the base-pairing ability of the nucleotides.

There is no reason to believe that RNA polymers were required to 
initiate self replication.

Ron Okimoto