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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: Oscilloscope delivers 25 GHz bandwith on 4 channels Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2024 01:27:13 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 121 Message-ID: <vj81t0$l1c0$1@dont-email.me> References: <virvei$raa2$1@solani.org> <vivahi$2etnj$2@dont-email.me> <vj0oa7$hk02$1@solani.org> <vj3utj$3oine$1@dont-email.me> <vtfblj9q92vpp54hvmm5efk5qtbcg9va9l@4ax.com> <vj4kk2$3tsrh$1@dont-email.me> <6upbljteudjb1bgc8trmblif647t9c0c6h@4ax.com> <vj50af$p2e$1@dont-email.me> <vj6ob1$df3o$1@dont-email.me> <vj7tkm$kd8n$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2024 01:27:13 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c01eb470ccbf6678544182be202abec4"; logging-data="689536"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+18fuqLahX0EuK4pKt0H5ND60DHJfhbn0=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:e1EAwOuIcN5SpTpSFhnQ40poZl8= In-Reply-To: <vj7tkm$kd8n$1@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 6885 On 10-12-2024 00:14, Phil Hobbs wrote: > Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >> On 08-12-2024 21:41, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 18:26:07 +0100, Jeroen Belleman >>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 12/8/24 16:53, john larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 12:11:47 +0100, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund >>>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 07-12-2024 07:00, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Dec 2024 17:59:30 +0100) it happened Lasse Langwadt >>>>>>>> <llc@fonz.dk> wrote in <vivahi$2etnj$2@dont-email.me>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/5/24 11:31, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Oscilloscope Delivers 25-GHz Bandwidth on Four Channels >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/test-measurement/oscilloscopes/article/55247306/electronic-design-pico-technology-oscilloscope-delivers-25-ghz-bandwidth-on-four-channels >>>>>>>>>> Pico Technology expanded its PicoScope 9400 Series with the >>>>>>>>>> PicoScope 9404A-25, a high-performance oscilloscope with 25 GHz of >>>>>>>>>> bandwidth on four channels. The company's Sampler-Extended >>>>>>>>>> Real-Time Oscilloscope (SXRTO) technology integrates real-time >>>>>>>>>> acquisition with sampling oscilloscope capabilities. Thus, the >>>>>>>>>> scope can trigger directly on the signal while recording pre-trigger >>>>>>>>>> data, with the high time and amplitude resolution of a sampling scope. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/techxchange/article/55238271/advanced-oscilloscope-techniques >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.picotech.com/products/oscilloscope/picoscope-9000-series/picoscope-9400a-series-sampler-extended-real-time-oscilloscope >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Only 25,645 ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For the real audiophiles!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXYje2B04xE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 110GHz bandwidth, 256GS/s four channels, only ~$2M >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.keysight.com/us/en/product/UXR1102A/infiniium-uxr-series-oscilloscope-110-ghz-2-channels.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When I want to see 10 GHz signals I use an old 5 dollar LNB and >>>>>>>> downconvert to about 1 GHz... >>>>>>>> that into a 35 dollar RTL_SDR stick. >>>>>>>> I know it is not the same, but 100 GHz downconvert should not cost hat much more >>>>>>>> At higher frequencies lasers into non linear crystals as mixer? >>>>>>>> From the 1.999 M$ left buy a nice house? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Very nice idea, but that will work only for sinusoidal signals, right? >>>>>> >>>>>> There were some superhet oscilloscopes that split the input signal >>>>>> into bands with RF techniques, namely downconverting bands and >>>>>> digitizing them, then somehow putting that mess back together >>>>>> mathematically. Of course, one was a LeCroy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Integrated shockline samplers killed that idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> But 100 GHz electrical signals barely exist, so the market is small >>>>>> for those megabuck scopes. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I should be possible to abuse a cheap fast latched comparator as >>>>> a sampler with ~10GHz bandwidth or so. Something like an ADCMP580. >>>>> >>>>> Jeroen Belleman >>>> >>>> I've done that and have a PCB, TDR actually. It seemed to work but I >>>> haven't had much time to play with it. >>>> >>>> Does anyone want to take over and see how well it actually works? I >>>> guess it could become a product. >>>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y88pcdjfd0qovxmpfizwu/Z368.JPG?rlkey=fu4bng7i34yjbol7s1npapp8x&raw=1 >>>> >>>> It's one of those tiles. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Simon and I are just finishing up a TDR gizmo for measuring soil moisture >>> and salinity vs depth for an ag customer. It’s a 150-ps-class device, >>> which is much better than good enough for the application, and we’re >>> getting the first 20 fully-stuffed boards for $23 each from JLCPCB, >>> including the data converters, MCU, voltage regulators, as well as the TDR >>> proper. >>> >>> It uses a two-diode sampler, which avoids the major pain of sampler design, >>> the need to match diodes. Of course it has horrible kickout, but that’s >>> perfectly okay in this situation. >>> >>> Fun gizmo. >>> >> >> At an earlier employment a proposal was made to include a TDR into a >> product, to be able to preventive warn of cable faults or even motor >> winding shorts. >> >> Then a RF engineer, one that I never liked much, took the brute force >> approach using a GHz sampling ADC, costing hundreds of dollars per >> product (would effectively kill the idea). He said it could not be done >> in any other way. >> >> I then made a diode sampler, with a sliding picosecond STM32 timer, and >> made it for 10 USD instead :-) >> > > Our gizmo is replacing something like that—a 250 MSa transient digitizer > run in equivalent time mode. Its BOM cost was around $400, plus a lot of > the parts were EOL. > > Savings like that sure make the licensing conversation easier. ;) > So you were able to make a deal with the client that you part owned the IP, and could use it for other projects? I am in a similar situation right now, working on a dedicated HW solution that I would like to begin to sell afterwards. Guessing either telling the client they get later improvements to the design for free, reducing my hours billed, or letting them get a percentage of the profits of my sales.