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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++
Subject: The essence of my halting problem work
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2024 22:52:07 -0600
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On 12/10/2024 8:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 12/10/24 9:22 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 12/10/2024 1:35 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-09 13:46:16 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 12/9/2024 4:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-08 19:34:19 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/8/2024 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-12-05 04:20:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is an 80% chance that I will be alive in one month.
>>>>>>>> There may be an extended pause in my comments.
>>>>>>>> I will try to bring a computer to the out of town hospital.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/4/2024 8:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/24 8:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/2024 7:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/24 8:41 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/2024 7:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/24 8:06 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/2024 6:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/24 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/3/2024 5:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/3/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is WRONG !!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ITSELF.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to change the subject from my rebuttal of your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IT CAN DO THIS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But only if your think that wrong answer can be right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not mention anything about answers my entire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scope is that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus conclusively proving that HHH can emulated itself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulating DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever you go out-of-scope like this it surely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems dishonest to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But the behaivor that HHH shows that it has *IS* an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "answer",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH according to the semantics of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the x86 language cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether HHH aborts this emulation after N steps or never 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aborts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a nonsense sentence, since HHH can't emulate HHH as it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't given it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you have to keep fucking lying about this?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I could die on the operating table in two weeks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's the lie?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can you point to what I say that is wrong, and a reliable 
>>>>>>>>>>> reference that show it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All you have is your own lies to call it a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And yes, you might die in two weeks, and the only thing you 
>>>>>>>>>>> will have left behind is all your lies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes you fucking jackass this conclusively proves that
>>>>>>>>>> HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It proves that your HHH fails to meet its requirement to be 
>>>>>>>>> pure function
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It proves that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once we get through this point then we know that DDD
>>>>>>>> does not halt:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH according to the semantics of
>>>>>>>> the x86 language cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction
>>>>>>>> whether HHH aborts this emulation after N steps or never aborts.
>>>>>>>> *This tells us that DDD emulated by HHH DOES NOT HALT*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We do not begin to examine whether or not HHH found this
>>>>>>>> answer as a pure function until after we agree with the
>>>>>>>> prior point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *In all of the history of the halting problem there*
>>>>>>>> *have never been a correct return value for this*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> int DD()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not a useful main. It is sufficient to determine whether HHH
>>>>>>> returns but not to determine whther it returns the correct value.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When we understand that the first point is correct
>>>>>>>> then we know that HHH returning 0 is correct.
>>>>>>>> *This has much has never ever been done before*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is one of the well known methods to prove that the value HHH 
>>>>>>> returns
>>>>>>> is incorrect. If HHH returns 0 then DD returns 0 but the meaning 
>>>>>>> of 0 in
>>>>>>> this context is that DD does not halt. THerefore the value 
>>>>>>> returned by
>>>>>>> HHH is incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Every expert in the C programming language has agreed that DD
>>>>>> simulated by HHH cannot possibly return.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they not. They have agreed that DD returns only if HHH returns
>>>>> 0 and that HHH is not able to simulated DD to that point.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone disagreeing with this has dishonestly used to strawman
>>>>>> deception to refer to different behavior than DD simulated by HHH.
>>>>>
>>>>> The topic as specified on the subject line is the behaviour of DD and
>>>>> what HHH should report. Simulation is not mentioned there.
>>>>
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========