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From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Todays rant
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2024 12:51:49 -0500
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On 12/12/2024 8:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/12/2024 7:19 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 12/11/2024 4:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 12/11/2024 3:06 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>> On 12/11/2024 3:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 12/11/2024 12:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 12:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 6:06 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reality is that ALL firearms are dangerious. [sic]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John, are ALL firearms equally dangerous? Really?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course not!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The AR was specifically designed to be more dangerous to the 
>>>>>>>> enemy than its predecessor. If that were not the objective, 
>>>>>>>> there would have been no need for a new design.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was 65 years ago. Designs have progressed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, although I haven't looked recently, for many years the #1 
>>>>>>> fatal round in USA was .22LR overwhelmingly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Without editing or rephrasing Mr Slocumb's comment, "all firearms 
>>>>>>> are dangerous" in in fact obviously true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John was using "All firearms are dangerous" specifically as a 
>>>>>> defense of wide proliferation of AR- style rifles. Check the 
>>>>>> thread. By ignoring that fact, his buddies are pretending that all 
>>>>>> levels of danger are equally bad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ignoring levels of danger is beyond absurd. If you accept that, 
>>>>>> you may as well extend the concept to straight pins, stairways, 
>>>>>> sunburn and hell, everything else in the world. And you may as 
>>>>>> well advocate for private ownership of nuclear weapons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (And I'll note that the gun fetishists here actually _have_ tried 
>>>>>> to do that with other everyday items! I won't remind people of 
>>>>>> their other chosen items, because that will just set them off on 
>>>>>> other illogical chases.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Every farmer in my are has plenty of ammonia rich fertilizer and a 
>>>>> few hundred gallons of diesel. Not one of them has emulated Timothy 
>>>>> McVeigh. Not once.
>>>>>
>>>>> Materiel is not volition.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ammonia-rich fertilizer and diesel fuel were not designed with the 
>>>> intent to kill humans.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, for all the difference it made to 19 children; 168 people 
>>> altogether.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the difference is in the act and the actor not the tool.
>>
>> Still a bad analogy, the same used to compare deaths from car crashes, 
>> kitchen knives (any manner of pointy objects) - all lethal when used 
>> with the intent to murder, but none designed with the intent to murder.
>>
>> The AR-15 when used for the intended design is specifically lethal to 
>> humans. That cannot be said for fertilizer, ammonia, cars, ball-point 
>> pens......
>>
>>
> 
> So you agree with me that the crucial aspects are the actor and the act, 
> not the hardware.
> 

To a certain extent.

If every human being could be trusted to act responsibly, allowing a 
device that was developed expressly to kill other human beings to be 
possessed without any restrictions wouldn't be a problem.

But Humans can't be trusted.

Following your posit to the extreme, there should be no reason therefore 
to prevent me from mounting a fully-operational m134 minigun on the roof 
of my car. Hey, I'm a responsible adult, never been arrested, I've never 
committed any acts of violence, even had a security clearance for a 
time. If the criteria is _solely_ 'the actor and the act', why shouldn't 
I be able to do that?

Why shouldn't _any_ one who has never had any history of violent 
behavior _not_ be allowed to own weapons of war? It's not like people 
with no history of violence have _ever_ engaged in a mass shooting....



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