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From: zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Todays rant
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 14:23:32 -0500
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On 12/15/2024 2:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/15/2024 10:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 11:06:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/15/2024 10:11 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On 15 Dec 2024 14:17:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On 14 Dec 2024 16:52:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/14/2024 8:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:59:41 -0600, AMuzi 
>>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 8:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 4:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 1:15 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     The vast majority of the mass shootings that target
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> random victims in schools, malls, and theaters aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committed by people with a violent past, so the argument
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that 'they never committed violence before' is pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much irrelevant to the context of this conversation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I realize there have been a number of instances  at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clubs, bars, and parties where it seems to be related to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gang activity. Those aren't' the types of incidents we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I agree.  The bulk of 'mass shooting' events are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tangential to ongoing criminal activity; at a party, in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar, drive-by in front of a crowd, etc.  Utterly different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem (with different possible resolutions) than a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deranged but determined homicidal maniac.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't think of a deterrent/preventive strategy except
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for maybe public execution and I hesitate to assume even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would dissuade Son of Sam, Nikolas Cruz, Richard
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ramirez, Stephen Paddock, Jeffrey Dahmer, or their ilk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One suggestion might be to look at the social conditions in
>>>>>>>>>>>> nations similar to the U.S. but with far fewer killings,
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially gun killings, per capita. Emulate what they do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "?No Way To Prevent This,? Says Only Nation Where This
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regularly Happens"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-
>>>>>>>>>>>> nation-where-this-r-1848971668/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do not have a snappy solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> some context:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386759/mass-shootings- 
>>>>>>>>>>> us-other-developed-world/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in- 
>>>>>>>>>>> the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in- 
>>>>>>>>>>> the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even if all the "assault weapons" were rounded up and 
>>>>>>>>>> destroyed, it
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't stop the mass murders nor any other murders. There 
>>>>>>>>>> are too
>>>>>>>>>> many other ways to do it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where there's a will, there's a way. The problem is there are 
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> with the will.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It?s much much harder without a gun and particularly a gun that 
>>>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>>> rapidly fired.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mass murders by other means are not impossible but that much 
>>>>>>>>> harder and can
>>>>>>>>> be stopped by brave unarmed people as with the children killed 
>>>>>>>>> in the uk
>>>>>>>>> this summer, which was used by various right wing groups to 
>>>>>>>>> inspire riots
>>>>>>>>> by well lying!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the suspect was slowed by one of the nursery workers I 
>>>>>>>>> think she died
>>>>>>>>> from her injuries but she was able to slow/prevent and a 
>>>>>>>>> colleague got help
>>>>>>>>> from the Gym? Anyway a large chap who subdued the attacker.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don?t get me wrong I suspect that it would require more than 
>>>>>>>>> just removing
>>>>>>>>> easy access to guns etc, but even that almost certainly would 
>>>>>>>>> have dramatic
>>>>>>>>> effects.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, yes to some extent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the instant example from NYC, Mr Mangione, an engineer,
>>>>>>>> originally planned to make a bomb but decided the risk of
>>>>>>>> injury/death to people other than his target was too high so
>>>>>>>> he made his own firearm and suppressor with a 3D printer.
>>>>>>>> Good luck 'regulating' a capable determined psychopath.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone with basic machining skills can make a Sten. The
>>>>>>>> simple open bolt action design is at the top end of firing
>>>>>>>> rates for automatics:
>>>>>>>> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/guns-and-parts- 
>>>>>>>> seized-man-arrested-in-weapons-raids/news-story/ 
>>>>>>>> e7addecb691695b3aebdb5b613181132
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m sure they could but that?s not the path of least resistance 
>>>>>>> ie to use
>>>>>>> the gun they own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Although the path of least resistance has changed to 3D print:
>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/14/australia/australia-3d-printed- 
>>>>>>>> firearm-intl-hnk/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe that?s more criminals trying to avoid detection, than 
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> actively used at least in the mass killings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Criminals shooting each other and the innocents nearby are a
>>>>>>>> real problem. That problem, within bounds of rationality,
>>>>>>>> likely has solutions for mitigation. A madman determined to
>>>>>>>> kill will not be deterred by licensing/prohibition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Places that have removed guns or from general circulation suggest 
>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>> plus police actions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ie in the uk use of gun means as criminals you?ve instantly made 
>>>>>>> yourself
>>>>>>> UK most wanted, let alone your chance of survival if the armed 
>>>>>>> police
>>>>>>> encounter you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A short walk through the history of anarchist and insurgent
>>>>>>>> bombings shows huge losses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Occasionally yes, but it?s much harder work and much less numbers 
>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>> per year.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p.s. regarding 'rapid'
>>>>>>>> Modern semi rifles and pistols fire all within the same rate
>>>>>>>> range, which is lower than revolvers BTW and much slower
>>>>>>>> than even primitive home built automatics
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed any gun control would almost certainly target those. As 
>>>>>>> happens in
>>>>>>> various countries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your reference to using a gun in the UK being a serious crime is
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