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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Todays rant Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 14:23:32 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 230 Message-ID: <vjnabk$i6ag$6@dont-email.me> References: <vjhut1$3idco$1@dont-email.me> <vji14c$253ke$14@dont-email.me> <vji7ld$3junk$1@dont-email.me> <vjir84$3n6fa$1@dont-email.me> <vjisar$3n7b4$1@dont-email.me> <l5qqljlo0o4kaekjnb8smi1lg40o1vnvef@4ax.com> <ls5in8Fn6cbU1@mid.individual.net> <vjk74s$1o71$1@dont-email.me> <ls5rdhFojisU1@mid.individual.net> <iflrljl004bmu9opahcdq54n4br6kia6hf@4ax.com> <ls86mvF5igsU1@mid.individual.net> <7qrtljdouj8vjjivf40i0cdbqcb0jr11u0@4ax.com> <vjmur1$kogv$5@dont-email.me> <bv0uljdr64i9rfrhve4s435mje0ib936dm@4ax.com> <vjn93g$mh7k$11@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 20:23:33 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="472ec417fc7ca824977f2670ccb5284f"; logging-data="596304"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+UrWr9OXFwrkQgapn/scuTzth3jotL/TI=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:s5eOKv8WtjF0NeIKj7pqOP1gJOs= In-Reply-To: <vjn93g$mh7k$11@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 10740 On 12/15/2024 2:02 PM, AMuzi wrote: > On 12/15/2024 10:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote: >> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 11:06:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski >> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >>> On 12/15/2024 10:11 AM, John B. wrote: >>>> On 15 Dec 2024 14:17:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote: >>>>>> On 14 Dec 2024 16:52:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 12/14/2024 8:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:59:41 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 8:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 4:06 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 1:15 PM, Zen Cycle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The vast majority of the mass shootings that target >>>>>>>>>>>>>> random victims in schools, malls, and theaters aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> committed by people with a violent past, so the argument >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that 'they never committed violence before' is pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much irrelevant to the context of this conversation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I realize there have been a number of instances at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clubs, bars, and parties where it seems to be related to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gang activity. Those aren't' the types of incidents we're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I agree. The bulk of 'mass shooting' events are >>>>>>>>>>>>> tangential to ongoing criminal activity; at a party, in a >>>>>>>>>>>>> bar, drive-by in front of a crowd, etc. Utterly different >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem (with different possible resolutions) than a >>>>>>>>>>>>> deranged but determined homicidal maniac. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't think of a deterrent/preventive strategy except >>>>>>>>>>>>> for maybe public execution and I hesitate to assume even >>>>>>>>>>>>> that would dissuade Son of Sam, Nikolas Cruz, Richard >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ramirez, Stephen Paddock, Jeffrey Dahmer, or their ilk. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One suggestion might be to look at the social conditions in >>>>>>>>>>>> nations similar to the U.S. but with far fewer killings, >>>>>>>>>>>> especially gun killings, per capita. Emulate what they do. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "?No Way To Prevent This,? Says Only Nation Where This >>>>>>>>>>>> Regularly Happens" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only- >>>>>>>>>>>> nation-where-this-r-1848971668/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I do not have a snappy solution. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> some context: >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386759/mass-shootings- >>>>>>>>>>> us-other-developed-world/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in- >>>>>>>>>>> the-us-by-weapon-used/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in- >>>>>>>>>>> the-us-by-weapon-types-used/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Even if all the "assault weapons" were rounded up and >>>>>>>>>> destroyed, it >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't stop the mass murders nor any other murders. There >>>>>>>>>> are too >>>>>>>>>> many other ways to do it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Where there's a will, there's a way. The problem is there are >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> with the will. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It?s much much harder without a gun and particularly a gun that >>>>>>>>> can be >>>>>>>>> rapidly fired. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mass murders by other means are not impossible but that much >>>>>>>>> harder and can >>>>>>>>> be stopped by brave unarmed people as with the children killed >>>>>>>>> in the uk >>>>>>>>> this summer, which was used by various right wing groups to >>>>>>>>> inspire riots >>>>>>>>> by well lying! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But the suspect was slowed by one of the nursery workers I >>>>>>>>> think she died >>>>>>>>> from her injuries but she was able to slow/prevent and a >>>>>>>>> colleague got help >>>>>>>>> from the Gym? Anyway a large chap who subdued the attacker. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Don?t get me wrong I suspect that it would require more than >>>>>>>>> just removing >>>>>>>>> easy access to guns etc, but even that almost certainly would >>>>>>>>> have dramatic >>>>>>>>> effects. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> C'est bon >>>>>>>>>> Soloman >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well, yes to some extent. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the instant example from NYC, Mr Mangione, an engineer, >>>>>>>> originally planned to make a bomb but decided the risk of >>>>>>>> injury/death to people other than his target was too high so >>>>>>>> he made his own firearm and suppressor with a 3D printer. >>>>>>>> Good luck 'regulating' a capable determined psychopath. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone with basic machining skills can make a Sten. The >>>>>>>> simple open bolt action design is at the top end of firing >>>>>>>> rates for automatics: >>>>>>>> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/guns-and-parts- >>>>>>>> seized-man-arrested-in-weapons-raids/news-story/ >>>>>>>> e7addecb691695b3aebdb5b613181132 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I?m sure they could but that?s not the path of least resistance >>>>>>> ie to use >>>>>>> the gun they own. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Although the path of least resistance has changed to 3D print: >>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/14/australia/australia-3d-printed- >>>>>>>> firearm-intl-hnk/index.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe that?s more criminals trying to avoid detection, than >>>>>>> being >>>>>>> actively used at least in the mass killings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Criminals shooting each other and the innocents nearby are a >>>>>>>> real problem. That problem, within bounds of rationality, >>>>>>>> likely has solutions for mitigation. A madman determined to >>>>>>>> kill will not be deterred by licensing/prohibition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Places that have removed guns or from general circulation suggest >>>>>>> otherwise >>>>>>> plus police actions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ie in the uk use of gun means as criminals you?ve instantly made >>>>>>> yourself >>>>>>> UK most wanted, let alone your chance of survival if the armed >>>>>>> police >>>>>>> encounter you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A short walk through the history of anarchist and insurgent >>>>>>>> bombings shows huge losses. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Occasionally yes, but it?s much harder work and much less numbers >>>>>>> certainly >>>>>>> per year. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> p.s. regarding 'rapid' >>>>>>>> Modern semi rifles and pistols fire all within the same rate >>>>>>>> range, which is lower than revolvers BTW and much slower >>>>>>>> than even primitive home built automatics >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Indeed any gun control would almost certainly target those. As >>>>>>> happens in >>>>>>> various countries. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Roger Merriman >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Your reference to using a gun in the UK being a serious crime is ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========