Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Todays rant
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:32:37 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 278
Message-ID: <vjp34m$13ks5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <l5qqljlo0o4kaekjnb8smi1lg40o1vnvef@4ax.com>
 <ls5in8Fn6cbU1@mid.individual.net> <vjk74s$1o71$1@dont-email.me>
 <ls5rdhFojisU1@mid.individual.net>
 <iflrljl004bmu9opahcdq54n4br6kia6hf@4ax.com>
 <ls86mvF5igsU1@mid.individual.net>
 <7qrtljdouj8vjjivf40i0cdbqcb0jr11u0@4ax.com> <vjmur1$kogv$5@dont-email.me>
 <bv0uljdr64i9rfrhve4s435mje0ib936dm@4ax.com> <vjn93g$mh7k$11@dont-email.me>
 <vjnabk$i6ag$6@dont-email.me> <vjnajq$n0qu$4@dont-email.me>
 <vjng4m$ndib$10@dont-email.me> <bbkulj1ngj8i9a9pg8qsqtef8tphud8lmd@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:32:39 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="52ec114c807285fc83cfb96140f13f55";
	logging-data="1168261"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX199+kkNiOQ4TxKtgjm3gHvPRjExmKObbTY="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:IUuBDrIXwE7X/Ox3ajh5rTInaRA=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <bbkulj1ngj8i9a9pg8qsqtef8tphud8lmd@4ax.com>
Bytes: 13535

On 12/15/2024 5:14 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 16:02:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 12/15/2024 2:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2024 1:23 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>> On 12/15/2024 2:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 12/15/2024 10:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 11:06:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/15/2024 10:11 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 15 Dec 2024 14:17:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 14 Dec 2024 16:52:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/14/2024 8:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:59:41 -0600, AMuzi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 8:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 4:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 1:15 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      The vast majority of the mass shootings that target
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> random victims in schools, malls, and theaters aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committed by people with a violent past, so the argument
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that 'they never committed violence before' is pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much irrelevant to the context of this conversation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I realize there have been a number of instances  at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clubs, bars, and parties where it seems to be related to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gang activity. Those aren't' the types of incidents we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I agree.  The bulk of 'mass shooting' events are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tangential to ongoing criminal activity; at a party, in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar, drive-by in front of a crowd, etc. Utterly different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem (with different possible resolutions) than a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deranged but determined homicidal maniac.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't think of a deterrent/preventive strategy except
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for maybe public execution and I hesitate to assume even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would dissuade Son of Sam, Nikolas Cruz, Richard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ramirez, Stephen Paddock, Jeffrey Dahmer, or their ilk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One suggestion might be to look at the social conditions in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nations similar to the U.S. but with far fewer killings,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially gun killings, per capita. Emulate what they do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "?No Way To Prevent This,? Says Only Nation Where This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regularly Happens"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this- says-only-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation-where-this-r-1848971668/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not have a snappy solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386759/ mass-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shootings- us-other-developed-world/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/ murder-victims-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in- the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass- shootings-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in- the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if all the "assault weapons" were rounded up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroyed, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't stop the mass murders nor any other murders. There
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other ways to do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where there's a will, there's a way. The problem is there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the will.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s much much harder without a gun and particularly a gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rapidly fired.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mass murders by other means are not impossible but that much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> harder and can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be stopped by brave unarmed people as with the children
>>>>>>>>>>>>> killed in the uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this summer, which was used by various right wing groups to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inspire riots
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by well lying!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But the suspect was slowed by one of the nursery workers I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think she died
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from her injuries but she was able to slow/prevent and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleague got help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the Gym? Anyway a large chap who subdued the attacker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don?t get me wrong I suspect that it would require more than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy access to guns etc, but even that almost certainly would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have dramatic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effects.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, yes to some extent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the instant example from NYC, Mr Mangione, an engineer,
>>>>>>>>>>>> originally planned to make a bomb but decided the risk of
>>>>>>>>>>>> injury/death to people other than his target was too high so
>>>>>>>>>>>> he made his own firearm and suppressor with a 3D printer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck 'regulating' a capable determined psychopath.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone with basic machining skills can make a Sten. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> simple open bolt action design is at the top end of firing
>>>>>>>>>>>> rates for automatics:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/guns- and-parts-
>>>>>>>>>>>> seized-man-arrested-in-weapons-raids/ news-story/
>>>>>>>>>>>> e7addecb691695b3aebdb5b613181132
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I?m sure they could but that?s not the path of least resistance
>>>>>>>>>>> ie to use
>>>>>>>>>>> the gun they own.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Although the path of least resistance has changed to 3D print:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/14/australia/ australia-3d-
>>>>>>>>>>>> printed- firearm-intl-hnk/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that?s more criminals trying to avoid detection, than
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> actively used at least in the mass killings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Criminals shooting each other and the innocents nearby are a
>>>>>>>>>>>> real problem. That problem, within bounds of rationality,
>>>>>>>>>>>> likely has solutions for mitigation. A madman determined to
>>>>>>>>>>>> kill will not be deterred by licensing/prohibition.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Places that have removed guns or from general circulation
>>>>>>>>>>> suggest otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>> plus police actions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ie in the uk use of gun means as criminals you?ve instantly
>>>>>>>>>>> made yourself
>>>>>>>>>>> UK most wanted, let alone your chance of survival if the armed
>>>>>>>>>>> police
>>>>>>>>>>> encounter you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A short walk through the history of anarchist and insurgent
>>>>>>>>>>>> bombings shows huge losses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Occasionally yes, but it?s much harder work and much less
>>>>>>>>>>> numbers certainly
>>>>>>>>>>> per year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> p.s. regarding 'rapid'
>>>>>>>>>>>> Modern semi rifles and pistols fire all within the same rate
>>>>>>>>>>>> range, which is lower than revolvers BTW and much slower
>>>>>>>>>>>> than even primitive home built automatics
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed any gun control would almost certainly target those. As
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========