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From: MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Irony
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2024 08:32:24 +1100
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On 17/12/2024 5:50 am, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 16/12/2024 06:10, MarkE wrote:
>> I've raised Steven Benner's "tar paradox" in a recent post; it 
>> subsequently occurred to me that the Miller-Urey experiment is, 
>> ironically, a demonstration of this (I've mentioned this in a another 
>> thread, but thought it deserved a separate post). Miller-Urey produced 
>> only unusable small/trace amounts of amino acids in a "tar" mixture:
>>
>> Breakdown of products:
>> * Carboxylic Acids (e.g., formic acid, acetic acid, and succinic 
>> acid): These dominated the product mix, typically making up 80-90% of 
>> the total organic compounds.
> 
> Not tar. I found a Miller & Urey paper.
> 
>> * Hydroxy Acids (e.g., lactic acid and glycolic acid): Accounted for 
>> 5-10% of the total.
> 
> Not tar.
> 
>> * Amino Acids: Typically contributed about 1-2% of the total organic 
>> product yield.
> 
> Not tar. Also the numbers you give below add up to ~4.5%. The number 
> from a Miller and Urey paper I found give an every larger proportion (by 
> mole) of amino acids, and carboxylic acids in the 50-60% range.
> 
>> * Other Organic Molecules: Small amounts of urea, nitriles, aldehydes, 
>> and hydrocarbons were also formed, constituting the remainder of the 
>> products.
> 
> Not tar.
>>
>> Relative concentrations of amino acids produced:
>> - Glycine: Approximately 2.1% of the total yield
>> - Alanine: Around 1.7%
>> - β-Alanine: About 0.76%
>> - Aspartic Acid: Approximately 0.024%
>> - Glutamic Acid: Around 0.051%
> 
> I had thought that the Miller-Urey experiment did produce appreciable 
> quantities of tar. Was I mistaken?
> 

I think so.

"Miller’s experiment did produce the amino acids, but only by 
continuously circulating the reaction mixture and isolating products as 
they were formed. The quantities were still tiny and not in the same 
proportions as found in nature. One of the causes of the low yield has 
been identified by Peltzer who worked with Miller. As the amino acids 
were formed they reacted with reducing sugars in the Maillard reaction, 
forming a *brown tar* around Miller's apparatus. Ultimately, Miller was 
producing large compounds called mellanoids, with amino acids as an 
intermediate product."

Or this:

"Little discussed by anyone outside the origins of life scientific 
community was that the experiment also produced a lot of a dark, sticky 
substance, a gooey tar that covered the beaker’s insides. It was 
dismissed as largely unimportant and regrettable then, and in the 
thousands of parallel origins of life experiments that followed.

Though they do offer this glimmer:

"Today, however, some intrepid researchers are looking at the tarry 
residue in a different light."

https://manyworlds.space/2017/09/21/messy-chemistry-a-new-way-to-approach-the-origin-of-life/