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From: RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Founder of Gentoo Daniel Robbins: "I actually try to avoid
 using Linux on the desktop"
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2024 10:59:23 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-12-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-17 à 15:25, RonB a écrit :
>
>>> Getting the hardware to work as it should from the moment you're done
>>> installing the operating system. A fresh installation of Windows does
>>> that. Linux comes close, but you will inevitably be forced to find
>>> workarounds for some of your hardware. On this PC in particular, there
>>> is no way to get the fingerprint reader to work, you won't get the audio
>>> to play at its highest potential volume, and you won't be able to use
>>> any of the advanced trackpad gestures. Apparently, it's possible to get
>>> the reader by overwriting the firmware and doing a bunch of other
>>> complicated junk in Arch alone, but there is no remedy for the sound and
>>> none of the desktop environments do too well with simple gestures like
>>> two-finger flick to the left or the right to go back or forward on
>>> webpages. They give you lots of gestures to do tons of other things like
>>> switching virtual desktops, but the most basic thing seems to elude them.
>> 
>> Your "experience" with Linux doesn't match mine. When I moved to Idaho to
>> help care for my wife's aging parents, we traveled light. I had a laptop
>> but I wanted to use a desktop. I bought one at the second hand store without
>> a hard drive. I ran that computer on a Live Linux Mint USB for about two
>> months, install took a couple minutes. Try that with Windows. Get back to me
>> with your results.
>
> Part of enabling hardware encryption on Windows requires you to use 
> Windows To Go in much the way you would Linux on a LiveUSB stick. It's 
> doable, but Microsoft doesn't give you a direct way of creating such an 
> installation the way that Linux does. I'll say this much: I do believe 
> that you ran a live Linux environment for months rather comfortably and 
> that the installation took little time. That's definitely a strength of 
> the operating system.
>
>> As for fingerprint readers, specialized GPUs, etc., I can't say one way or
>> the other. I don't use fingerprint readers (even where I have them), nor do
>> I care about trackpad gestures. I get rid of tapping on my trackpads and
>> want to use them for two things, moving cursor and scrolling.
>> 
>> As for sound, your problems with it are not mine. I guess there are
>> advantages to using business machines as opposed to gaming machines. No
>> issues with sound on my computers. No Arch ever needed.
>
> The sound chip uses something called Dolby Atmos in Windows. Without it, 
> the sound is no different in Windows than it would be in Linux. With it, 
> the volume is augmented and you can set it up for the type of sound you 
> are using. It increases the sound without causing crackling and it is 
> definitely a feature people aren't likely to want to sacrifice. As for 
> the fingerprint reader, the issue stems from the manufacturer doing 
> nothing to open its hardware for open-source developers. However, 
> manufacturers have no obligation to support Linux and they aren't 
> compensated in any way if they decide to.

Maybe my computers don't have this "Dolby Atmos" because I can't tell any 
difference between Windows and Linux when I play music on the same computer. 
I know I don't have any crackling (as it would drive me nuts).

I realize that a lot of people like the fingerprint reader, but I saw how 
these could be used to steal your identity (right when they first came out) 
and I decided I never wanted to use them.

>>>> I just spent about three hours getting my wife's desktop to boot and update
>>>> to the newest Windows 11 update (which is why I suspect it locked up in the
>>>> first place). Once I got Windows to boot (by disconnecting the hard drive
>>>> and removing it from the "boot choice" in the BIOS — it took an hour and a
>>>> half to download the update and install it — than about another ten minutes
>>>> after rebooting... doing something or other. This is on a 10th generation
>>>> Intel CPU, with 40 GBs of RAM, using an NVMe SSD, with an Internet speeds of
>>>> about 650 Mbps. Heaven knows how long it would have taken with slower
>>>> Internet, an older CPU and 8 GBs of RAM.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't want to find out. If she doesn't update regularly as she
>>> should, I have no sympathy for the fact that she had to go through one
>>> long update which took hours. My wife is the same way and I don't bother
>>> to help her anymore since she keeps doing it to herself despite my warnings.
>> 
>> Yes my wife does update when she's informed that one is necessary. This is
>> just Windows being Windows. Microsoft's updates suck.
>
> I can't say that I like them either, but 11's are definitely better than 
> 10. The fact that it essentially reinstalls the operating system on big 
> updates is a bonus for me since it cleans out the crap. It's obviously 
> much slower than a Linux one, but I don't dislike it.

I've updated Windows 11 a couple times and do think, generally, it's better 
than Windows 10. So I'll give you that. Still take way too long, though.

>>>> So, one of the "basic things" for me is being able to start and update the
>>>> damn computer without it locking up and taking over an hour a half just to
>>>> download and install an update. I have never had to deal with something like
>>>> this in the 18 years I've been using Linux (except when supporting my
>>>> family's Windows' machines).
>>>
>>> I admit that this isn't ideal. However, once that update completes, you
>>> know that your desktop will work as it should preserving all settings
>>> and software. I would rather that be the expectation and what Microsoft
>>> promises than the fast alternative requiring you to fix (if you're
>>> capable) a Linux installation or completely reinstall it. I'm sure that
>>> you've had nothing but good luck in eighteen years of using Linux since
>>> I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, but I've experienced way too
>>> many broken installations which crashed because some obscure library
>>> went from 0.32.8.1 to 0.32.8.2.
>> 
>> No you don't know that. (Maybe more so now then in the past, I don't know.)
>> My wife has had BSODs after updates. And didn't a recent application update
>> kill Windows machines with BSODs all over the world?
>> 
>> As I've mentioned now (several times) I've never had a single Linux update
>> fail. Just to see if it would work, I recently upgraded a 2007 Dell Latitude
>> D430 from Linux Mint 18.2 to Linux Mint 21 — without rebuilding anything.
>> This required three major point upgrades (18 to 19, 19 to 20 and 20 to 21)
>> and three minor point updates (from 18.2 to 18.3, 19 to 19.3, 20 to 20.3).
>> This took hours (mostly while I was doing other things in the background),
>> but it was done. The D430 runs on 2 GBs of memory (its maximum) and uses an
>> old Core 2 Duo CPU.
>> 
>> Since I KNOW this works (I don't go by what I read from Windows FUDsters) I
>> KNOW that all these supposed issues with Linux upgrades are BS. That said,
>> would I do this on a regular basis? No. It's fast an easy to back up your
>> data, and rebuild your computer with Linux. Takes about a half an hour
>> total. (Try that on Windows.)
>
> Good points either way.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien