Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel's co-CEO claims retailers say Qualcomm-powered PCs have
 high return rates, points to new competitors with Arm chips coming in 2025
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2024 11:09:06 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2024-12-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-17 à 15:30, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-17 à 03:13, RonB a écrit :
>>>> On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Le 2024-12-16 à 05:27, RonB a écrit :
>>>>>> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 02:23, RonB a écrit :
>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 10:44, RonB a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>>>>>>>>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>>>>>>>>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>>>>>>>>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I
>>>>>>>>>> really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not to a person who lives in an area where electricity is cheap.
>>>>>>>>> However, it is only going to become more expensive in places like Europe
>>>>>>>>> where its production depend on a resource acquired from Russia. The same
>>>>>>>>> way they switched to fuel-efficient or electric cars to lower their
>>>>>>>>> reliance on gasoline, they are probably going to switch to
>>>>>>>>> energy-efficient machines to reduce their need for electricity altogether.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If things are getting that dire in Europe they're going to have to learn
>>>>>>>> to live without computers at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this were the 80s and Europe were facing these issues, I imagine that
>>>>>>> either Atari or Commodore would have produced a very efficient computer
>>>>>>> which would only need to be charged once daily. Let's not forget how
>>>>>>> popular the ST and the Amiga were over there while they were failing
>>>>>>> miserably in North America. Because both companies are dead, the most
>>>>>>> likely scenario is that they will move to the efficient machines made by
>>>>>>> Apple or equipped with Qualcomm's processors. I do not think that their
>>>>>>> energy crisis is going to get better anytime soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry, but I'm skeptical that the electricity needed to charge a laptop
>>>>>> is that big of a concern, even in Europe.
>>>>>
>>>>> In that case, you should look at how Germany's economy is tanking,
>>>>> specifically the result of a lack of cheap oil coming in from Russia.
>>>>> You can imagine that the smaller supply of oil will result in electrical
>>>>> production being more expensive and for the power bills to be much
>>>>> higher for the average German. As a result, they are not as likely as
>>>>> they once might have been to buy the powerful PC which requires 800W of
>>>>> power to play a game every hour.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have to "imagine" that the lack of cheap Russian gas is hurting
>>>> Germany's economy (that's plain to see every day in the international news).
>>>> I'm just having trouble imagining that this is resulting in angst about the
>>>> amount of electricity required to charge a laptop.
>>>
>>> If the price you pay for electricity doubles, you are likely to look at
>>> the devices in your house and make changes in the kind of machine you
>>> buy. The promise of charging once a day rather than keeping a machine
>>> plugged is likely to be a benefit to a European. The people of North
>>> America probably won't care as much since power is cheap here.
>> 
>> Hypotheticals. I'll remain skeptical that this will be a major issue.
>> (Unless, of course, there is no power at all — which may be a reality in
>> Europe if they keep going down the destructive paths they've chosen. In that
>> case keeping food from spoiling will probably take priority over laptop
>> charging — of any kind).
>
> Only as long as whatever work you do doesn't depend on you having a 
> computer.
>
>>>> I purposely use low power laptops and micro desktops because it's all I need
>>>> and I don't like the background sound of fans. These all run Intel CPUs
>>>> (except for the Wyse 5060 thin client desktop — it uses a low power AMD
>>>> CPU).
>>>>
>>>> And, as usual, the standard disclaimer, I don't play Windows' video games or
>>>> use high-end (watt gobbling) GPUs. I'm not sure, though, that ARM chips will
>>>> be running these games in the future. (I guess we'll see.)
>>>
>>> ARM might, but I don't care to stick around to find out. At best, I
>>> would imagine that ARM will play today's games as well as today's x86-64
>>> PCs around 2027 or so through some compatibility layer. If it happens
>>> sooner, all the better.
>> 
>> I'm guessing the power required to run Windows complex video games will not
>> fit in ARM's low-power "wheelhouse." But we'll see. As I've mentioned (many
>> times now) I'm not a game player.
>
> ARM being low-power doesn't mean that it is low-performance. As the 
> Apple processors have shown, they're a lot more powerful than x86-64 
> processors on single-core applications. They're only worse on multi-core 
> and even then, not by much. ARM basically allows people to have 
> performance like they currently have but through much less battery power.

I'll watch and see what happens. I don't anticipate getting an ARM laptop 
(or desktop) in the near future — but then I don't anticipate buying any new 
computers at all in the next ten years (or so).

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien