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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: The Hypocrisy of Luigi Mangione's Leftist Fandom
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2024 16:31:13 -0500
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On 12/26/2024 3:52 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 12/26/2024 12:20 PM, super70s wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-26 17:09:02 +0000, Rhino said:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-12-25 6:01 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 12/25/2024 4:10 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-12-25 3:57 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/25/2024 3:22 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 14:28:07 -0500, Rhino
>>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-25 1:50 PM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-25 01:36:44 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> According to the Left, the death penalty is unfair, unjust,
>>>>>>>>>>> immoral, and
>>>>>>>>>>> evil.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Unless you have the opportunity to walk up to a rich guy you don't
>>>>>>>>>>> like on
>>>>>>>>>>> the sidewalk and shoot him in the back. The only form of the death
>>>>>>>>>>> penalty
>>>>>>>>>>> that's okay for the Left is the form that doesn't include a judge,
>>>>>>>>>>> jury, or
>>>>>>>>>>> court, and where the executed person has not been charged with,
>>>>>>>>>>> convicted
>>>>>>>>>>> of, or even accused of any specific crime.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the actual position of millions of leftists in this
>>>>>>>>>>> country.
>>>>>>>>>>> Not a
>>>>>>>>>>> straw man. It's what they believe.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why do you presume Mangione's fandom is "leftist" exclusively?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because you leftist types love anything that can be portrayed as
>>>>>>>>> a blow
>>>>>>>>> against capitalism and assassinating a CEO absolutely SCREAMS
>>>>>>>>> "Down with
>>>>>>>>> Capitalism!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only people I see supporting Mangione were just average people on
>>>>>>>> Twitter. While I'm sure some would be considered on the left I
>>>>>>>> couldn't tell you if they were all on the left or just partly on the
>>>>>>>> left. I don't see any media types on the left or right supporting
>>>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I do see is many people hating on the current health care
>>>>>>>> industry and supporting anything that gets them to change their ways.
>>>>>>>> The problem is that it's not at all clear that killing that CEO does
>>>>>>>> anything but get the other CEOs to close ranks. I've seen posts from
>>>>>>>> other CEOs decrying the attack but not commenting on what the CEO had
>>>>>>>> done as the CEO of that health care company. (Having the largest
>>>>>>>> number of rejected claims by far from every health care insurance
>>>>>>>> company.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I thought Donald Trump (allegedly) had this big populist appeal
>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>> and one would think that would include sticking it to health
>>>>>>>>>> insurance
>>>>>>>>>> companies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Has he even commented on the reasons behind the attack? I mean
>>>>>>>> everyone can (or should) be able to say that murder is bad, but that
>>>>>>>> still leaves the reasons behind the attack unsaid by many.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Giving him such a podium would be proclaimed politically incorrect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh? It's politically incorrect for the soon-to-be top politician in
>>>>>> the land to have an opinion about a political matter? That's absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Error.  I thought 'he/him' referred to Mangione.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On re-reading this, I'm not sure if "he/him" refers to Mangione or
>>>> Trump. If it meant Trump, I stand by my assertion that he has every
>>>> right to speak about health insurance in general. If it meant
>>>> Mangione, it would be risky for him to speak about his motivation in
>>>> shooting the CEO: it might rally him some support from the people who
>>>> think murdering insurance CEOs is a good idea but it would make it a
>>>> whole lot harder to justify his not-guilty plea, which wouldn't augur
>>>> well for him in his trial.
>>>
>>> I believe his lawyer (reportedly a former prosecutor and probably the
>>> best legal counsel he could hope for in a case with such overwhelming
>>> evidence) is going for an insanity defense and hoping for jury
>>> nullification. As we've seen there's certainly no shortage of people
>>> sympathetic to his cause.
>>
>> As I understand it, an 'insanity defense' would be its own thing
>> ...whereas 'jury nullification' would say, "He did it but in the service
>> of higher justice we're setting him free anyway."  And, to arrive at the
>> latter, the jury would have to engage perilous precedent.
> 
> Nullification is an odd thing in that while it is technically legal,
> attorneys are prohibited from arguing it in court, so any jury that wants
> to do it has to know about that option on their own.
> 
> I wonder if judgment notwithstanding the verdict is available to the
> prosecution or if that's only something the defense can argue for.

Especially as neither of us has heard of it, I'd guess the latter.

Is "judgment notwithstanding" a thing?  I assume its difference from 
'jury nullification' would be that His Honor must find the defendant 
innocent and the jury incompetent.