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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: The Hypocrisy of Luigi Mangione's Leftist Fandom Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2024 16:31:13 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 112 Message-ID: <vkkhv2$35a9m$1@dont-email.me> References: <_BidnTKOnZIx_Pb6nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> <vkhk59$2gupf$1@dont-email.me> <vkhmc7$2ghjj$1@dont-email.me> <cupomjlnmfuiskc6p16hd6gr4tr236aghk@4ax.com> <vkhrj2$2i49v$1@dont-email.me> <vkhsbs$2i1ul$3@dont-email.me> <vki2sp$2iuvr$2@dont-email.me> <vkk2jf$32mc5$1@dont-email.me> <vkk39d$32rui$1@dont-email.me> <vkkbo7$344sa$2@dont-email.me> <AIucnWSYW-u-X_D6nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2024 22:31:15 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="019dcc824058f754f3a15516a52b5ff2"; logging-data="3320118"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18tKHqhF6aXTCqeDnledt03k6G56K/XwAo=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:FyKaNMnKl9XBEOS9C5aqB3hXkkM= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <AIucnWSYW-u-X_D6nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> Bytes: 6563 On 12/26/2024 3:52 PM, BTR1701 wrote: > moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >> On 12/26/2024 12:20 PM, super70s wrote: >>> On 2024-12-26 17:09:02 +0000, Rhino said: >>> >>>> On 2024-12-25 6:01 PM, moviePig wrote: >>>>> On 12/25/2024 4:10 PM, Rhino wrote: >>>>>> On 2024-12-25 3:57 PM, moviePig wrote: >>>>>>> On 12/25/2024 3:22 PM, shawn wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 14:28:07 -0500, Rhino >>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-25 1:50 PM, super70s wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-25 01:36:44 +0000, BTR1701 said: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> According to the Left, the death penalty is unfair, unjust, >>>>>>>>>>> immoral, and >>>>>>>>>>> evil. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Unless you have the opportunity to walk up to a rich guy you don't >>>>>>>>>>> like on >>>>>>>>>>> the sidewalk and shoot him in the back. The only form of the death >>>>>>>>>>> penalty >>>>>>>>>>> that's okay for the Left is the form that doesn't include a judge, >>>>>>>>>>> jury, or >>>>>>>>>>> court, and where the executed person has not been charged with, >>>>>>>>>>> convicted >>>>>>>>>>> of, or even accused of any specific crime. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is the actual position of millions of leftists in this >>>>>>>>>>> country. >>>>>>>>>>> Not a >>>>>>>>>>> straw man. It's what they believe. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Why do you presume Mangione's fandom is "leftist" exclusively? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Because you leftist types love anything that can be portrayed as >>>>>>>>> a blow >>>>>>>>> against capitalism and assassinating a CEO absolutely SCREAMS >>>>>>>>> "Down with >>>>>>>>> Capitalism!" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The only people I see supporting Mangione were just average people on >>>>>>>> Twitter. While I'm sure some would be considered on the left I >>>>>>>> couldn't tell you if they were all on the left or just partly on the >>>>>>>> left. I don't see any media types on the left or right supporting >>>>>>>> him. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What I do see is many people hating on the current health care >>>>>>>> industry and supporting anything that gets them to change their ways. >>>>>>>> The problem is that it's not at all clear that killing that CEO does >>>>>>>> anything but get the other CEOs to close ranks. I've seen posts from >>>>>>>> other CEOs decrying the attack but not commenting on what the CEO had >>>>>>>> done as the CEO of that health care company. (Having the largest >>>>>>>> number of rejected claims by far from every health care insurance >>>>>>>> company.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I thought Donald Trump (allegedly) had this big populist appeal >>>>>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>> and one would think that would include sticking it to health >>>>>>>>>> insurance >>>>>>>>>> companies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has he even commented on the reasons behind the attack? I mean >>>>>>>> everyone can (or should) be able to say that murder is bad, but that >>>>>>>> still leaves the reasons behind the attack unsaid by many. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Giving him such a podium would be proclaimed politically incorrect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Huh? It's politically incorrect for the soon-to-be top politician in >>>>>> the land to have an opinion about a political matter? That's absurd. >>>>> >>>>> Error. I thought 'he/him' referred to Mangione. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> On re-reading this, I'm not sure if "he/him" refers to Mangione or >>>> Trump. If it meant Trump, I stand by my assertion that he has every >>>> right to speak about health insurance in general. If it meant >>>> Mangione, it would be risky for him to speak about his motivation in >>>> shooting the CEO: it might rally him some support from the people who >>>> think murdering insurance CEOs is a good idea but it would make it a >>>> whole lot harder to justify his not-guilty plea, which wouldn't augur >>>> well for him in his trial. >>> >>> I believe his lawyer (reportedly a former prosecutor and probably the >>> best legal counsel he could hope for in a case with such overwhelming >>> evidence) is going for an insanity defense and hoping for jury >>> nullification. As we've seen there's certainly no shortage of people >>> sympathetic to his cause. >> >> As I understand it, an 'insanity defense' would be its own thing >> ...whereas 'jury nullification' would say, "He did it but in the service >> of higher justice we're setting him free anyway." And, to arrive at the >> latter, the jury would have to engage perilous precedent. > > Nullification is an odd thing in that while it is technically legal, > attorneys are prohibited from arguing it in court, so any jury that wants > to do it has to know about that option on their own. > > I wonder if judgment notwithstanding the verdict is available to the > prosecution or if that's only something the defense can argue for. Especially as neither of us has heard of it, I'd guess the latter. Is "judgment notwithstanding" a thing? I assume its difference from 'jury nullification' would be that His Honor must find the defendant innocent and the jury incompetent.