Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: 8 & 9 year old girls riding bicycles
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2024 21:55:49 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <vknpbl$3vnnn$2@dont-email.me>
References: <7jmmmjt7hpprlget22u82arlvstki1j6mn@4ax.com>
 <796nmj5lomcfvmor1mkhlin70mg4oogq9i@4ax.com>
 <imhnmj1sq016t0rlva36tjo22ignie2t90@4ax.com>
 <rpknmjtgaab3vig4rah0tul99lh44lkk0h@4ax.com> <vkhm89$2h8fe$2@dont-email.me>
 <vkhpof$2h1bh$5@dont-email.me> <vki72v$2jua1$1@dont-email.me>
 <ds8pmjpog5pqp5qh8398h1vll4io6pc944@4ax.com> <vkibm0$2k6dp$4@dont-email.me>
 <vkjutj$31vi7$1@dont-email.me> <d12rmjp9frfabptifd3urpsfpti8q02c0b@4ax.com>
 <vklv5t$3hqna$1@dont-email.me> <4d3tmjpls6sgqp6oip46p5ac7rrgtjjcbh@4ax.com>
 <vkmegc$3l35p$8@dont-email.me> <vkmoh3$3npu0$1@dont-email.me>
 <vkmphk$3nuso$1@dont-email.me> <vkms1l$3ojrh$3@dont-email.me>
 <vkmv02$3out4$2@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: frkrygow@gmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2024 03:55:57 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d84e20e0c1b4b75d4c723004c01dbdc0";
	logging-data="4185847"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+Zmvg5gmstPRz24Kjd5yT7RipGJ15Mpq8="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:sT4U6uO3W+cTOmNonGGNyaBg3jY=
In-Reply-To: <vkmv02$3out4$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 4286

On 12/27/2024 2:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/27/2024 12:35 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> 
>>> And I agree with you that defense is utterly random due to the 
>>> asymmetric aspect of planning vs surprise, armed or not.
>> Thank you. And I wonder how many of the gun hobbyists here keep their 
>> loaded gun at the ready, to be grabbed within a minute, when at home?
> 
> I have no idea of actual numbers, and data is scarce, for the same 
> reason that political polling is much less accurate now.
> 
> All defensive use of firearms (not only against domestic intruder but 
> also cabbies, store clerks, runners & cyclists, etc) runs to very large 
> numbers in total.
> 
> https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20211027/114190/HMKP-117- 
> JU00-20211027-SD007.pdf

Ah yes. But OTOH 
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/debunking-the-guns-make-us-safer-myth/

"Using Kleck and Gertz’s own accounting, David Hemenway, director of the 
Harvard Injury Control Research Center, showed just two years later that 
their DGU estimates were impossible.21 While the 1995 survey estimated 
that guns were used for self-defense during burglaries approximately 
845,000 times that year, Hemenway estimated that fewer than 550,000 
possible burglaries occurred in homes with a gun owner 
present—suggesting that for the Kleck and Gertz figures to be accurate, 
burglary victims would have needed to use their gun defensively in more 
than 100 percent of cases, which is, of course, impossible.22 "  Etc.

A major tactic of gun fans is making people very, very afraid - as in 
"Someone could break through your front door as you're reading this!" Or 
"Someone could try to kill you as you ride your bike to work!"

And yet, it seems such incidents are so rare they're found by only one 
guy I know who digs for them each day on the internet!  :-)

> Justice Department says 100,000 defensive use of firearms incidents 
> which is well over the total number of firearm homicides. Independent 
> researchers show between 760,000 and 3.6 million defensive events per year.
> 
> Why did you not know this? 

We've discussed this at length, haven't we? "Nine times as many people 
report being victimized by a person with a gun than being protected by a 
gun."

Our tricycle rider just said that seconds count. When you're at home, is 
your gun on your person at all times, just in case of a home invasion? 
Is his? I'm betting not. I'm betting if you did suffer a home invasion, 
like John did, your gun would be useless. Like John's was.


-- 
- Frank Krygowski