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From: Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Patching TPU innertube
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 23:16:08 -0500
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On 12/30/2024 10:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 12/28/2024 6:35 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/28/2024 12:43 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>> On 12/27/2024 9:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 12/27/2024 2:01 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>> On 12/27/2024 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given what I've read about violins (Stradivarius can't be told 
>>>>>> from modern ones in blind hearing tests) 
>>>>>
>>>>> horseshit. Someone with training and experience can most certainly 
>>>>> tell the difference in the tonal quality between a Stradivarius and 
>>>>> even a high quality modern violin.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strads-fall- 
>>>> modern-violins-blind-sound-check
>>>
>>> Which doesn't support your claim. You wrote "Stradivarius can't be 
>>> told from modern ones in blind hearing tests", The article states:
>>>
>>> "the 82 listeners in the test reported that the new violins projected 
>>> better"
>>>
>>> "asked subjects which of the two violins in a pairing they preferred. 
>>> Listeners chose the new violins over the old"
>>>
>>> Yes, they could tell the difference.
>>
>> This question has been studied many, many times, for decades. The 
>> consistent results are that players or audience can't tell the 
>> difference.
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/science/a-strad-violinists-cant- 
>> tell.html
> 
> Paywalled
> 
>>
>> https://www.science.org/content/article/elite-violinists-fail- 
>> distinguish-legendary-violins-modern-fiddles
> 
> "The consistency of results from session to session showed that soloists 
> could definitely distinguish one violin from another. However, the 
> soloists seemed to prefer the new violins, the researchers report online 
> today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."
> 
> Yes, they can tell the difference.
> 
> 
>>
>> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/violinists-cant- 
>> tell- the-difference-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones
> 
> The science.org piece also references the test noted here.
> 
>>
>>>>>> and wines (cheap wines really light up pleasure centers in the 
>>>>>> brain if tasters are told the wine is expensive),
>>>>>
>>>>> more horseshit. Someone with training and experience can certainly 
>>>>> tell the difference in the flavor profiles, especially if you tried 
>>>>> to dupe them with a Gallo.
>>>> https://money.com/expensive-price-tag-cheap-wine-brain-placebo-effect/
>>>
>>> Which again doesn't support the claim that people couldn't tell the 
>>> difference. It also doesn't state what qualifications the tasters 
>>> had, if any. I've had crappy $100 bottles of wine and excellent $25 
>>> bottles of wine. Flavor preference is not the same than as "can't 
>>> tell the difference".
>>
>> If "telling the difference" is the same as "succumbing to the placebo 
>> effect," you've got a point. 
> 
> Do you really think it does?
> 
>> Otherwise, no.
> 
> we disagree. You're claim was "can't tell the difference". Everything 
> you posted to this point notes differences were detected - maybe not to 
> conventional wisdom, but differences were detected nonetheless.
OK, I yield. They could tell one violin did not sound precisely like 
another. But they could not tell which was the Strad, which was really 
my point.

IOW, they could not detect the supposedly unduplicable sound quality, 
the factor that causes Strads to sell for millions of dollars more than 
modern violins.

-- 
- Frank Krygowski