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From: Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Let's hide the bicyclists behind parked cars. What could go
 wrong?
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 19:24:47 -0500
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On 1/11/2025 4:02 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 1/11/2025 12:34 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2025 2:17 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> "Protected" bike lane hazard lawsuit:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://komonews.com/news/local/cyclist-green-lake-neighborhood-king-county-superior-court-aviv-litov-26-years-old-bike-lanes-life-altering-injuries-strittmatter-firm-configuration-tesla
>>>>>>
>>>>> I’m unconvinced by such designs seems asking for trouble and and attempting
>>>>> to please everyone ie compromise the cycleway for car parking, I’m guessing
>>>>> nice wide junction with no attempt to slow cars down let alone control it?
>>>>
>>>> If you're talking about that particular crash, it happened at a parking
>>>> lot. "A lawsuit filed in King County Superior Court claims Aviv Litov,
>>>> 26, was riding on Green Lake Drive North last June when a Tesla SUV
>>>> turned into a protected bike lane to access a parking lot."
>>>>
>>>> So no, not a "nice wide junction." Cyclists hidden from view are at risk
>>>> of collisions at every driveway as well as every parking lot and street
>>>> intersection.
>>>
>>> It very much was a big wide junction with bonus points of being on a hill
>>> so cyclists will be traveling faster than drivers expect.
>>>
>>> <https://maps.app.goo.gl/v7vuiDVNWNYNFf3TA>
>>
>> Hmm. Looks to me like the width of access to the parking lot was
>> probably intended to deal with the oddball angled configuration of the lot.
>>
>> It seems you're saying that entrances to parking lots must be
>> constrained to narrow widths. That's a new one! I don't remember coming
>> across that idea in any bike facility design manuals.
>>
>> It seems another example of "You built what we were asking for, but it's
>> obviously deadly! You should have known better!"
>>
> If your going to build a segregated bike lane, junctions will be conflict
> points, so the design needs to cater for that, this very much is a timid
> design as it’s kept the parking hasn’t done any management of access etc,
> the area kept clear of parking for access is comfortably wider than the
> access to the parking lot, wide will increase speeds we by nature simple
> creatures.

If by "kept clear" you mean "parking is not allowed near the driveway," 
that sort of thing is usually considered a safety benefit. When applied 
to street intersections, I've heard it called "daylighting." The 
rationale is that the cyclists should be visible for more than 30 feet 
before the intersection. Supposedly it reduces collisions by un-hiding 
the cyclists.

> Segregated infrastructure can and does work but it needs its design not to
> be compromised which this one is, mainly for the bare minimum of spare
> given over so to keep multiple lanes and parking for cars, if the street is
> mainly designed for the movement and parking of cars then that’s what
> you’re going to get.
> 
> Design a street more with walking/cycling etc and the outcome changes.

"You built what we were asking for, but it's obviously deadly! You 
should have known better!"

Perhaps you need to influence the people who come up with these designs.



-- 
- Frank Krygowski