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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Suspension losses
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 11:08:45 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 1/11/2025 6:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/11/2025 4:11 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:01:26 -0500 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>
>>> On 1/10/2025 5:18 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>> This makes me reflect on the criticism of electronics in 
>>>> bicycles. ... But what about measuring the
>>>> amount of power applied to the pedals, what about 
>>>> telling the cyclist
>>>> who balanced he splits the power between left and right, by
>>>> instrumenting the pedal or the bottom bracket?
>>>
>>> Yes, that can be done with enough sensors and 
>>> electronics. But it seems
>>> like useless information to me. As with much computer 
>>> software, it seems
>>> like "feature bloat." Why would anybody but a racer care?
>>
>> Is there any reason to believe that old people like me 
>> don't have a need
>> to care about training intensity, as a matter of 
>> principle?  How comes?
>>
>> When using my biycles as a middle aged, healthy adult I 
>> didn't care
>> about racing, didn't train and didn't try to find company 
>> in cycling
>> clubs, either. I didn't visit a gym until much later. 
>> Cycling was simply
>> a way to get to work quickly. During vacations it was a more
>> entertaining mode of transportation than the car. Fitness, 
>> strength and
>> cardio fitness came as a side effect, slowly and almost 
>> unnoticed.
>>
>> This has changed. My cardio fitness is still better than 
>> what I know
>> about a lot of people half my age. Nevertheless, it 
>> decreased over the
>> years and it takes more and more effort to keep what you 
>> have not yet
>> lost. As it is expected. The ability to measure power is 
>> helpful in
>> finding the point at which intensity is sufficient and 
>> overload has not
>> yet begun. This is even more true in combination with a 
>> heart rate
>> monitor.
>>
>> So far, this is only about aging. But there is more.
>>
>> Accidents that led to damage to bones, joints and tendons 
>> in the past
>> have consequences to be considered, too. There is a 
>> tendency to
>> compensate weaknesses by bad postures, whithout noticing. 
>> This is both
>> caused by damages and causing damages. This is to be 
>> avoided.  Measuring
>> how power is applied by the feet helps detecting 
>> differences early,
>> avoiding damage.
>>
>> Avoiding damage is far from useless.
> 
> But individual power outputs from left and right legs? I 
> can't imagine much value from that measurement. In fact, I 
> don't believe power measurement is necessary for fitness. I 
> judge by feel. It has the advantage of naturally 
> compensating for days when I feel stronger or weaker. And 
> it's organic!  ;-)
> 
>> My experiences with mechanical devices are at least as 
>> mixed as those
>> with electronic devices.  Some very complicated electronic 
>> devices that
>> I bought decades ago still work. The same applies to some 
>> that I built
>> myself a long time ago.  With devices that contained both 
>> electronic and
>> mechanical parts, the fault was more often on the 
>> mechanical side.
>>
>> Anecdotical, I know.
> 
> To me, a big advantage is the ability to _look_ at a 
> mechanical device and _see_ what's wrong. That, and the fact 
> I can often affect a repair. I hate the Kleenex ethic - 
> "It's no good any more, just throw it away."
> 
>>> Two days ago, my kid asked me to figure out why an 
>>> electric blanket
>>> wasn't working. The controller refused to turn on. I 
>>> opened it and
>>> confirmed that it was getting supply voltage. Beyond 
>>> that, the pile of
>>> dozens of surface mount electronic components was 
>>> incomprehensible to
>>> me. I suspect Jeff might have been able to diagnose it, 
>>> but not me.
>>> Here's a photo:
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/54259119364/ 
>>> in/dateposted-public/
>>> I know electric blankets are old technology. I know they 
>>> functioned well
>>> for decades with maybe a rheostat and perhaps a couple of 
>>> other
>>> components. Why add unrepairable complexity?
>>
>> Don't know.  We use devices like the blue one in the 
>> following picture.
>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/ 
>> W%C3%A4rmflasche1.jpg>
>> and better isolating blankets. No electricity necessary. :-)
> 
> :-) But you imply that _I'm_ the one insufficiently modern?
> 
>> A few lights in our house are switched by set of 2 x 3 
>> inexpensive
>> wireless sockets including two remote controls, that I 
>> bought eleven
>> years ago. I've still to replace the batteries. Two of the 
>> sockets are
>> still spares, I have a replacement cell for the remote 
>> controls stored
>> which might live even longer. Standard type, used in 
>> garage openers and
>> burglar alarms, too. Selecting a channel and paring one of 
>> the four
>> buttons of a remote control with one or more of the 
>> sockets is as easy
>> as pie, using a line of dip switches inside those 
>> devices.  Quite
>> similar to pairing switches and derailleur on our bicyles.
>>
>> While I avoid having essential functionality in my house 
>> depend on
>> wireless connections, I enjoy having the option, for 
>> certain use cases,
>> though. 
> 
> Yuck.
> 
> I bought a new pedestal fan for our back patio last year. 
> I've found a fan to be the best defense against mosquitos. 
> The previous one still runs, but exposure to sunlight 
> destroyed its plastic finger protection screen.
> 
> Anyway, the new one comes with a remote control, roughly the 
> size of a snack cracker. Who needs a remote to adjust a fan? 
> I rejected ceiling fans with remotes when I was shopping, 
> too. It's something to lose, something whose battery will 
> die, and something whose electronics will go bad and be 
> unrepairable.
> ...
>>
>> When I see a 50 year old, perfect looking bicycle, I think:
>> That one must have been standing around inside most of the 
>> time, perhaps
>> for a reason. 
> 
> My favorite bike is a young 39 years. It looks perfect, in 
> part because I had it (and my wife's matching one) stripped 
> and powder coated a couple years ago. Too many excellent 
> memories to let it go.
> 
> 

Not only the electronics infestation of consumer products.

I brought food to make girlfriend's birthday dinner last 
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