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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Suspension losses
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 19:28:34 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 1/12/2025 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 11:08:45 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/11/2025 6:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/11/2025 4:11 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>> Am Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:01:26 -0500 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/10/2025 5:18 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>>>> This makes me reflect on the criticism of electronics in
>>>>>> bicycles. ... But what about measuring the
>>>>>> amount of power applied to the pedals, what about
>>>>>> telling the cyclist
>>>>>> who balanced he splits the power between left and right, by
>>>>>> instrumenting the pedal or the bottom bracket?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that can be done with enough sensors and
>>>>> electronics. But it seems
>>>>> like useless information to me. As with much computer
>>>>> software, it seems
>>>>> like "feature bloat." Why would anybody but a racer care?
>>>>
>>>> Is there any reason to believe that old people like me
>>>> don't have a need
>>>> to care about training intensity, as a matter of
>>>> principle?  How comes?
>>>>
>>>> When using my biycles as a middle aged, healthy adult I
>>>> didn't care
>>>> about racing, didn't train and didn't try to find company
>>>> in cycling
>>>> clubs, either. I didn't visit a gym until much later.
>>>> Cycling was simply
>>>> a way to get to work quickly. During vacations it was a more
>>>> entertaining mode of transportation than the car. Fitness,
>>>> strength and
>>>> cardio fitness came as a side effect, slowly and almost
>>>> unnoticed.
>>>>
>>>> This has changed. My cardio fitness is still better than
>>>> what I know
>>>> about a lot of people half my age. Nevertheless, it
>>>> decreased over the
>>>> years and it takes more and more effort to keep what you
>>>> have not yet
>>>> lost. As it is expected. The ability to measure power is
>>>> helpful in
>>>> finding the point at which intensity is sufficient and
>>>> overload has not
>>>> yet begun. This is even more true in combination with a
>>>> heart rate
>>>> monitor.
>>>>
>>>> So far, this is only about aging. But there is more.
>>>>
>>>> Accidents that led to damage to bones, joints and tendons
>>>> in the past
>>>> have consequences to be considered, too. There is a
>>>> tendency to
>>>> compensate weaknesses by bad postures, whithout noticing.
>>>> This is both
>>>> caused by damages and causing damages. This is to be
>>>> avoided.  Measuring
>>>> how power is applied by the feet helps detecting
>>>> differences early,
>>>> avoiding damage.
>>>>
>>>> Avoiding damage is far from useless.
>>>
>>> But individual power outputs from left and right legs? I
>>> can't imagine much value from that measurement. In fact, I
>>> don't believe power measurement is necessary for fitness. I
>>> judge by feel. It has the advantage of naturally
>>> compensating for days when I feel stronger or weaker. And
>>> it's organic!  ;-)
>>>
>>>> My experiences with mechanical devices are at least as
>>>> mixed as those
>>>> with electronic devices.  Some very complicated electronic
>>>> devices that
>>>> I bought decades ago still work. The same applies to some
>>>> that I built
>>>> myself a long time ago.  With devices that contained both
>>>> electronic and
>>>> mechanical parts, the fault was more often on the
>>>> mechanical side.
>>>>
>>>> Anecdotical, I know.
>>>
>>> To me, a big advantage is the ability to _look_ at a
>>> mechanical device and _see_ what's wrong. That, and the fact
>>> I can often affect a repair. I hate the Kleenex ethic -
>>> "It's no good any more, just throw it away."
>>>
>>>>> Two days ago, my kid asked me to figure out why an
>>>>> electric blanket
>>>>> wasn't working. The controller refused to turn on. I
>>>>> opened it and
>>>>> confirmed that it was getting supply voltage. Beyond
>>>>> that, the pile of
>>>>> dozens of surface mount electronic components was
>>>>> incomprehensible to
>>>>> me. I suspect Jeff might have been able to diagnose it,
>>>>> but not me.
>>>>> Here's a photo:
>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/54259119364/
>>>>> in/dateposted-public/
>>>>> I know electric blankets are old technology. I know they
>>>>> functioned well
>>>>> for decades with maybe a rheostat and perhaps a couple of
>>>>> other
>>>>> components. Why add unrepairable complexity?
>>>>
>>>> Don't know.  We use devices like the blue one in the
>>>> following picture.
>>>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/
>>>> W%C3%A4rmflasche1.jpg>
>>>> and better isolating blankets. No electricity necessary. :-)
>>>
>>> :-) But you imply that _I'm_ the one insufficiently modern?
>>>
>>>> A few lights in our house are switched by set of 2 x 3
>>>> inexpensive
>>>> wireless sockets including two remote controls, that I
>>>> bought eleven
>>>> years ago. I've still to replace the batteries. Two of the
>>>> sockets are
>>>> still spares, I have a replacement cell for the remote
>>>> controls stored
>>>> which might live even longer. Standard type, used in
>>>> garage openers and
>>>> burglar alarms, too. Selecting a channel and paring one of
>>>> the four
>>>> buttons of a remote control with one or more of the
>>>> sockets is as easy
>>>> as pie, using a line of dip switches inside those
>>>> devices.  Quite
>>>> similar to pairing switches and derailleur on our bicyles.
>>>>
>>>> While I avoid having essential functionality in my house
>>>> depend on
>>>> wireless connections, I enjoy having the option, for
>>>> certain use cases,
>>>> though.
>>>
>>> Yuck.
>>>
>>> I bought a new pedestal fan for our back patio last year.
>>> I've found a fan to be the best defense against mosquitos.
>>> The previous one still runs, but exposure to sunlight
>>> destroyed its plastic finger protection screen.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the new one comes with a remote control, roughly the
>>> size of a snack cracker. Who needs a remote to adjust a fan?
>>> I rejected ceiling fans with remotes when I was shopping,
>>> too. It's something to lose, something whose battery will
>>> die, and something whose electronics will go bad and be
>>> unrepairable.
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> When I see a 50 year old, perfect looking bicycle, I think:
>>>> That one must have been standing around inside most of the
>>>> time, perhaps
>>>> for a reason.
>>>
>>> My favorite bike is a young 39 years. It looks perfect, in
>>> part because I had it (and my wife's matching one) stripped
>>> and powder coated a couple years ago. Too many excellent
>>> memories to let it go.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Not only the electronics infestation of consumer products.
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