Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Lost your home? Car? Everything? Thank a bicyclist and the
 California road diet.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This line?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- 
>>>>> funding/
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating 
>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger 
>>>>> rail systems.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating 
>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
>>>>
>>> 
>>> Impossible to know.  Too convoluted, just like most government 
>>> accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
>>> 
>>> Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original 
>>> Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go 
>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the 
>>> civil service.
>>
>>Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People 
>>blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
>>
>>> 
>>> But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and 
>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
>>> 
>>> https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- 
>>> away-from-roads/
>>> 
>>> And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, 
>>> as far as we know:
>>> 
>>> https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- 
>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
>>> 
>>> So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
>>> 
>>> Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider 
>>> beneficiaries just fine.
>>
>>My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road 
>>transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize 
>>rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that 
>>point.
>
>
> We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
> people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
> intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
> three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
> choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
>
> --
> C'est bon
> Soloman

I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast
Starlight.

If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph
otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long
way to getting more people on board.

In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. 
Sigh.

Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos