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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Lost your home? Car? Everything? Thank a bicyclist and the
 California road diet.
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2025 08:48:53 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This line?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
>>>>>>> funding/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
>>>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger
>>>>>>> rail systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
>>>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Impossible to know.  Too convoluted, just like most government
>>>>> accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
>>>>> Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the
>>>>> civil service.
>>>>
>>>> Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People
>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
>>>>> away-from-roads/
>>>>>
>>>>> And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense,
>>>>> as far as we know:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-
>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
>>>>>
>>>>> So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
>>>>>
>>>>> Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
>>>>> beneficiaries just fine.
>>>>
>>>> My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
>>>> transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize
>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that
>>>> point.
>>>
>>>
>>> We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
>>> people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
>>> intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
>>> three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
>>> choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
>>>
>>> --
>>> C'est bon
>>> Soloman
>>
>> I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast
>> Starlight.
>>
>> If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph
>> otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long
>> way to getting more people on board.
>>
>> In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines.
>> Sigh.
>>
>> Frustrated rail fan
>> pH in Aptos
> 
> There's not enough people like you.
> 
> --
> C'est bon
> Soloman

 From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971