Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Lost your home? Car? Everything? Thank a bicyclist and the
 California road diet.
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2025 04:01:16 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2025-01-19, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This line?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
>>>>>>>> funding/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
>>>>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger
>>>>>>>> rail systems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
>>>>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Impossible to know.  Too convoluted, just like most government
>>>>>> accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
>>>>>> Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
>>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the
>>>>>> civil service.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People
>>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
>>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
>>>>>> away-from-roads/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense,
>>>>>> as far as we know:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-
>>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
>>>>>> beneficiaries just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
>>>>> transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize
>>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that
>>>>> point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
>>>> people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
>>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
>>>> intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
>>>> three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
>>>> choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> C'est bon
>>>> Soloman
>>>
>>> I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast
>>> Starlight.
>>>
>>> If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph
>>> otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long
>>> way to getting more people on board.
>>>
>>> In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines.
>>> Sigh.
>>>
>>> Frustrated rail fan
>>> pH in Aptos
>> 
>> There's not enough people like you.
>> 
>> --
>> C'est bon
>> Soloman
>
>  From the Steam Age:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
>

I had to look and make sure I was playing it back at 1x!
Thanks, Mr. M!

pH