Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Wrong Again.
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 14:36:47 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 1/21/2025 2:20 PM, cyclintom wrote:
> On Tue Jan 21 09:50:04 2025 AMuzi  wrote:
>> On 1/21/2025 9:26 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> On 1/21/2025 4:32 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/20/2025 6:56 PM, cyclintom wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon Jan 20 18:41:29 2025 AMuzi  wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/20/2025 6:17 PM, cyclintom wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I took my BMC with an 12 speed Campy Record group out on Sunday and
>>>>>>>>> contrary to the opinion I had about the extra gears not being helpful,
>>>>>>>>> I, in fact, discovered that the extra gears went right inbetween the
>>>>>>>>> normal gears I had been using for climbing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now this might have been because I was pissed off at Campy because
>>>>>>>>> they do not make spare parts as they should but what I did was to swap
>>>>>>>>> out my Campy groups for 10 speed Dura Ace.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bought a full rebuild assembly for my disabled 12 speed levers and
>>>>>>>>> will fit these on my DeRosa Merak. I must have an extra set of Campy
>>>>>>>>> wheels somewhere but if I don't, $400 will buy a set of new Khamsin
>>>>>>>>> wheels from Amazon and my wife has an active Prime account. Ot I can
>>>>>>>>> fit a 12 speed freehub to the set of new Superteam wheels I have
>>>>>>>>> sitting here. This would leave me needing a 12 speed chain and
>>>>>>>>> cassette. The DeRosa is an aluminum main triangle and carbon fiber
>>>>>>>>> ends and is lighter than the BMC SLC01.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the Dura Ace 10 speed parts. They are very useful since unlike
>>>>>>>>> the 10 speed Campy components you could get long arm derailleurs for
>>>>>>>>> them and shift large road gears like my 11-36's. So I could get a
>>>>>>>>> pretty penny for them and one set of levers alone will pay for the
>>>>>>>>> full Campy 12 speed lever rebuild assembly from Canada before import
>>>>>>>>> taxes come into effect.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looking at this stack of freehubs I have here I think that I aleady
>>>>>>>>> have a Campy 12 speed if it fits on the Superteam wheels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While the Dura Ace 9000 brakes are very nice brakes it was shocking
>>>>>>>>> how much better the Campy brakes were, Not that they stopped any
>>>>>>>>> better but were so much more keenly controlable with the braking
>>>>>>>>> occuring over a parger span of the brake lever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I guess I simply didn't notice these refinements when I was using them every day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In any case I should say that the LTWoo (R9) 11 speed levers shift
>>>>>>>>> like a Campy lever but use all Shimano parts since they have the same pull ratios.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And since I was using the Giro shoes I didn't have particularly sore
>>>>>>>>> feet when I removed them. I'm hoping that Sidi Genius shoes work as
>>>>>>>>> well but the Sidi Carbon shoes are a little tight on the the lateral plantar nerve.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Campy 12 speed has a limit of 34 tooth on the cassette but I don't
>>>>>>>>> seem to be gaining anything with the Shimano 36 tooth. I am going so
>>>>>>>>> slow that control becomes a problem and not strength.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "As for the Dura Ace 10 speed parts. They are very useful
>>>>>>>> since unlike the 10 speed Campy components you could get
>>>>>>>> long arm derailleurs for them "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keywords for search: Record 10sp triple RD or Campagnolo
>>>>>>>> Racing T 10sp RD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/SGSANTAN.JPG
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way, regarding "pissed off at Campy because they do
>>>>>>>> not make spare parts as they should ",  where do you buy
>>>>>>>> your Dura Ace gear wire capstan for the STi levers?  If I
>>>>>>>> recall that was the Campagnolo part you broke.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Triples were terrible devices. OK for touring bikes but absolute trash
>>>>>>> for racing. They were usually a 52/48/30 though a lot of people replaced
>>>>>>> the 48 with a 45 or even a 42 on the later 130 mm triples. They were
>>>>>>> forever misshifting in a racing setting and that was the end of your
>>>>>>> race at that point. Plus I was a lugger so there was no reason for me
>>>>>>> to have a 30 tooth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Campy 10 speed doubles would only shift a 28 though if you used a
>>>>>>> Daytona rear derailleur you could shift a 30 tooth cog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The long cage models are called 'triple' by Campagnolo
>>>>>> because they do not produce an 'offroad' series.  The long
>>>>>> cage model is what you want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://bicyclecampagnolorecord.com/2023/02/campagnolo-record-long-cage-rear-derailleur-10-speed-triple-vintage-bike/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe was a MTB groupset if briefly and they do now a gravel groupset
>>>>> which is one the few highs apparently.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speculation they will go under at some stage or bought up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not for ten speed systems. Short medium, long rear changers
>>>> and the long ones are marked 'triple' on the package. There
>>>> were no offroad 10 offered by Campagnolo.
>>>>
>>> Sorry yes, I ment way back in time and Ekar which I think is 13 speed?
>>>
>>> Rather than 10 speed stuff which 3 out of the 4 bikes I own are.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>> Right. Mr Kunich specifically complained about rear changer
>> capacity on Campagnolo Ten. He merely owns the wrong model
>> changer for the gearing he prefers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe so Andrew. My memory of the 10 speeds was that the top arm is what limited the Campy 10 speed to a 28. The long lower arm allowed more chain take up. The 12 speed has a longer top arm so that it can fit a 34.

The IRD cassettes  for Campagnolo pattern Ten (low gear 30, 
32 or 34) sold very very well when 10 was 'the latest 
thing'. I have personally set up a dozen and my employees 
did many more. For a 34, you need the long cage model.

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971