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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: People Without Meaningful Lives Seek Power Over Others
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:40:08 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 1/23/2025 7:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 1/23/2025 6:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/23/2025 2:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2025 2:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2025 12:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 1/23/2025 6:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/22/2025 10:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, I think if we could do so, road taxes should 
>>>>>>> all be on such a per-mile-driven system, maybe 
>>>>>>> modified additionally for the weight of the vehicle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas tried it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dallasnews.com/news/ 
>>>>>> investigations/2024/10/23/ a-look- at- texas-private- 
>>>>>> toll-roads/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> at least in one case, it didn't go so well:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-tollway-288-steep- 
>>>>>> price/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Since the tollway opened in November 2020, toll rates 
>>>>>> have increased by more than 160 percent, going from 
>>>>>> $11 for the full 20- mile round trip during peak hours 
>>>>>> to $29 dollars now. "
>>>>>
>>>>> That looks like an astonishingly bad agreement between 
>>>>> the government and BTG corporation. But note that BTG 
>>>>> paid only a third of the cost of construction, so even 
>>>>> that "private" toll road was heavily subsidized by 
>>>>> taxpayers. I'm pointing this out to those who say rail 
>>>>> transport should cover all its expenses via fares, with 
>>>>> zero subsidies.
>>>>>
>>>>> To try for a broader overview of road taxes: There are 
>>>>> people who never drive, and people who drive far more 
>>>>> than others. Since the vast majority of road-related 
>>>>> expenses are _not_ covered by gasoline taxes, why 
>>>>> should a non-driver pay the same road taxes as a mega- 
>>>>> driver?
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not tie those taxes the amount of roadway used by 
>>>>> each driver, since that (as well as vehicle weight) is 
>>>>> a main determinant of roadway expenses? After all, 
>>>>> train fares are strongly affected by the the rider's 
>>>>> travel distance - IOW the amount of track used.
>>>>>
>>>>> To allay the fears of the paranoid: The government 
>>>>> wouldn't need to track your movements. You'd simply 
>>>>> need to submit evidence of your odometer total once per 
>>>>> year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me the crew that says "Let the market decide" 
>>>>> should be all in favor of this idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> And please note, I'm not making this argument for my 
>>>>> own benefit. Quite the opposite! As I've said, my life 
>>>>> situation has changed in a way that makes me driver far 
>>>>> more annual miles than I ever did before, and I'm doing 
>>>>> it in an EV. I'm pretty sure I'm paying less than "my 
>>>>> share" of roadway expenses.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many (I included) would sharply resist such government 
>>>> motoring of my auto use. That's a political barrier, not 
>>>> a technical issue.
>>>
>>> Of course you, and many others, would dislike such a 
>>> scheme! So yes, like many things, it's a political issue. 
>>> Everybody wants better services but they don't want to 
>>> pay for them. (Our classic example here is better law 
>>> enforcement and more prisons, magically paid for by "No 
>>> new taxes!")
>>>
>>>> Also, people who do not own or use motor vehicles still 
>>>> consume myriad products all of which are transported by 
>>>> motor freight (even air & rail have 'last mile' truck 
>>>> delivery). They pay road tax with every purchase, plus a 
>>>> markup.
>>>
>>> Of course. And they'd still pay that way, through normal 
>>> sales tax and purchase price, as they do now. But in 
>>> principle, their total tax burden should be less, since 
>>> those who made private use of the roads would be paying a 
>>> bit closer to their fair share.
>>>
>>> It seems downright socialistic to charge non-drivers the 
>>> same as drivers for roads whose potholes and other wear 
>>> the non-drivers never generate.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The principle is sound, that we all bear the cost of 
>> shared infrastructure.
> 
> But I'm saying those who "share" it less should pay less.
> 
> Non-drivers get less for their tax money.
> 
>>
>> In practice, many people are rubbed the wrong way by being 
>> taxed for things which never get finished, never meet 
>> goals, never benefit the citizenry.
>>
>> Such as Chicago property taxes, which are relatively high 
>> for US cities, pretending to 'graduate' illiterates at 
>> $30,000 each per year. We all have our own egregious 
>> examples I'm sure from potholes to bicycle paths.
> 
> OK, I'll stop complaining unfair road taxes on non-drivers 
> if you stop complaining about Chicago student performance. 
> Deal?   ;-)
> 
> 

It's merely an example with which I am very familiar.

No different from Baltimore (arguably the worst public 
school system in USA) or Hartford:

https://ctmirror.org/2024/09/29/cant-read-high-school-ct-hartford/


-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971