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Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.killfile.org!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Paradoxes Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 15:57:58 +1100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 30 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <vmv6km$22ou8$2@dont-email.me> References: <vlt8mu$h46e$1@dont-email.me> <vlu0b5$lfhs$1@dont-email.me> <vlve01$som5$2@dont-email.me> <vm0n1k$16lsd$2@dont-email.me> <vm0r7q$178hu$1@dont-email.me> <vm7sd5$2sled$1@dont-email.me> <pvdhojpi9mdffqp9qah9im4fbq1t6i9m26@4ax.com> <vmah23$3e6d8$2@dont-email.me> <avjhoj5mt2mfdcpotq0rqops96jl212hfi@4ax.com> <vmdhjr$15ag$2@dont-email.me> <rslkojplv5j2sg9d9pecthfutp0tmdc285@4ax.com> <vmence$9594$1@dont-email.me> <vmpmr3$ia8q$1@dont-email.me> <vmqoq0$10mf5$2@dont-email.me> <vmv0pd$1u4nk$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="15655"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:UQDUQDvr9mumR7UPNAOVrQupoMY= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 14F1122978C; Thu, 23 Jan 2025 23:58:08 -0500 (EST) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95885229783 for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Thu, 23 Jan 2025 23:58:05 -0500 (EST) by pi-dach.dorfdsl.de (8.18.1/8.18.1/Debian-6~bpo12+1) with ESMTPS id 50O4w0Cb1543388 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 05:58:02 +0100 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DD3760601 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 04:57:59 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/8DD3760601; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com id 33E27DC01CA; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 05:57:59 +0100 (CET) X-Injection-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 05:57:59 +0100 (CET) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <vmv0pd$1u4nk$1@dont-email.me> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX18bhCjUwA3AB1q9W5iygma6qHkiQ8jB6Y0= HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_IN_WELCOMELIST, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 4217 On 24/01/2025 2:17 pm, Mark Isaak wrote: > On 1/22/25 4:37 AM, MarkE wrote: >> On 22/01/2025 1:56 pm, Mark Isaak wrote: >>> On 1/17/25 2:59 PM, MarkE wrote: >>>> >>>> Here's a serious question regarding nonintervention, from genuine >>>> wondering on my part. It seems to me there are different forms of >>>> theistic evolution with respect to intervention, which might be >>>> characterised as: >>>> >>>> 1. E.g. speciation "download" (significant interventions; detectable) >>>> 2. Nudging the molecules (subtle interventions; detectable in >>>> principle) >>>> 3. Quantum event loading (probabilistic interventions; undetectable?) >>>> 4. Pure front-loading (initial intervention only; undetectable) >>> >>> I take issue with your nomenclature. Those items (1-4) are not forms >>> of theistic anything. They are forms of unknown superpower >>> intervention. Even if one of those scenarios is fact, there is no >>> reason to say that the actor behind it is a god. >>> >> >> I'm okay with "God" equals "unknown superpower" for the purpose of >> this discussion. > > You seem to have a very naturalistic view of God. > I'm really just acknowledging that, in this context, it's only possible to make a generic reference to the inferred supernatural agent.