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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: People Without Meaningful Lives Seek Power Over Others Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 11:12:33 -0600 Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd. Lines: 475 Message-ID: <vngbu1$31ate$1@dont-email.me> References: <zwgkP.176573$vfee.122746@fx45.iad> <vmsbhb$1aqp1$2@dont-email.me> <vmt8re$1jmo3$2@dont-email.me> <vmu0lv$1o8bt$1@dont-email.me> <vmu5rj$1p7vp$2@dont-email.me> <vmua84$1q2s6$2@dont-email.me> <vmuj7v$1rrf4$4@dont-email.me> <vmuqj5$1t7qv$1@dont-email.me> <vmur1m$1t8ma$1@dont-email.me> <5mv5pj5k8dkfgkv2776armooftvtk03on2@4ax.com> <vn06fo$28idn$2@dont-email.me> <vt97pjtdcrhvl19fcmgp2ll7rrsva2t58d@4ax.com> <vn0ei4$2a3l0$1@dont-email.me> <vn0h1s$2alqq$1@dont-email.me> <pdb8pj13oldnfu35srvl6ffvkbs13mdd2n@4ax.com> <vn1ckn$2fl5k$2@dont-email.me> <vn1kct$2gutd$4@dont-email.me> <vn2qs2$2qrv6$3@dont-email.me> <vn36dl$2u48d$3@dont-email.me> <vng5ke$2votg$6@dont-email.me> <vngah2$3156i$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:12:34 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e347699b196dc857eb143336c9705591"; logging-data="3189678"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18DyhfQyGHVPrh1o8cAnPzE" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:TSVwzjcsjZZ31SB3Sq9CqGHPduQ= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <vngah2$3156i$1@dont-email.me> Bytes: 19412 On 1/30/2025 10:48 AM, Zen Cycle wrote: > On 1/30/2025 10:25 AM, AMuzi wrote: >> On 1/25/2025 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>> On 1/25/2025 9:01 AM, AMuzi wrote: >>>> On 1/24/2025 9:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>> On 1/24/2025 7:52 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>> On 1/24/2025 6:26 PM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:01:48 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/24/2025 10:19 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 1/24/2025 9:57 AM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:01:28 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 9:10 PM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:40:08 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 7:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 6:26 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 2:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 2:38 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 12:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 6:23 AM, zen cycle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2025 10:03 PM, Frank Krygowski >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, I think if we could do so, road >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all be on such a per-mile-driven system, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modified additionally for the weight of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vehicle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Texas tried it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dallasnews.com/news/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investigations/2024/10/23/ a-look- at- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> texas- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toll-roads/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least in one case, it didn't go so well: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.texasobserver.org/texas- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tollway-288- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steep- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> price/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Since the tollway opened in November >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2020, toll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have increased by more than 160 percent, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $11 for the full 20- mile round trip >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during peak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to $29 dollars now. " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That looks like an astonishingly bad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agreement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the government and BTG corporation. But >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> note that BTG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid only a third of the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> construction, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that "private" toll road was heavily >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsidized by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxpayers. I'm pointing this out to those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transport should cover all its expenses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via fares, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zero subsidies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To try for a broader overview of road >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes: There >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who never drive, and people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drive far more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than others. Since the vast majority of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> road- related >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expenses are _not_ covered by gasoline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes, why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should a non-driver pay the same road >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mega- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why not tie those taxes the amount of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roadway used by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each driver, since that (as well as vehicle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weight) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a main determinant of roadway expenses? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> train fares are strongly affected by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rider's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel distance - IOW the amount of track >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To allay the fears of the paranoid: The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't need to track your movements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You'd simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to submit evidence of your odometer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> total >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once per >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems to me the crew that says "Let the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decide" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be all in favor of this idea. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And please note, I'm not making this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> argument for my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own benefit. Quite the opposite! As I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation has changed in a way that makes me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more annual miles than I ever did before, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in an EV. I'm pretty sure I'm paying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less than "my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share" of roadway expenses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many (I included) would sharply resist such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motoring of my auto use. That's a political >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barrier, not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a technical issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course you, and many others, would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dislike such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scheme! So yes, like many things, it's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> political >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everybody wants better services but they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pay for them. (Our classic example here is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better law >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforcement and more prisons, magically paid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for by "No >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new taxes!") >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, people who do not own or use motor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consume myriad products all of which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transported by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor freight (even air & rail have 'last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mile' truck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivery). They pay road tax with every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plus a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> markup. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course. And they'd still pay that way, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales tax and purchase price, as they do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now. But in ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========