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From: MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Paradoxes
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 13:52:53 +1100
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On 31/01/2025 2:03 am, LDagget wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 8:35:59 +0000, MarkE wrote:
> 
>> On 16/01/2025 8:19 am, LDagget wrote:
>>> On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 8:04:55 +0000, MarkE wrote:
>>>
>>>> Potential paradoxes are of particular interest because if unresolved,
>>>> they may indicate not just difficultly but impossibility.
>>>>
>>>> Benner's framing remark is noteworthy: "Discussed here is an 
>>>> alternative
>>>> approach to guide research into the origins of life, one that 
>>>> focuses on
>>>> 'paradoxes', pairs of statements, both grounded in theory and
>>>> observation, that (taken together) suggest that the 'origins problem'
>>>> cannot be solved."
>>>
>>> Seems to me that framing things as paradoxes is a transparently
>>> deceptive sophistry.
>>>
>>> It displaces the actual argument's details to a categorical that
>>> pretends
>>> to be a fundamental problem. Thus we get chicken and egg paradoxes.
>>> Can't
>>> get one without the other --- see it's a paradox. Or you get sophistry
>>> like
>>> zeno's paradox, or the liar's paradox. They are games on sets up by
>>> language
>>> that superficially sounds fair and reasonable but ultimately embed a
>>> hidden
>>> absurdity in their premises.
>>>
>>
>> Interesting that you go directly to pejorative and dismissal.
>>
>> And yet, for example, Eigen's paradox "is one of the most intractable
>> puzzles in the study of the origins of life,"* which rightly identifies
>> "a fundamental problem" and is decidedly not "transparently deceptive
>> sophistry". A similar assessment holds for other OoL paradoxes named by
>> Benner and others.
>>
>> Your haste to categorise Benner's statement as such seems to me to be,
>> ironically, transparent sophistry.
>>
>>
>> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_threshold_(evolution)
> 
> Nothing in this thread salvages your initial post from my criticism.
> There's nothing but sophistry to support your criticism. Nothing.
> And you have no sense of shame.

Why do so many exchanges here devolve so rapidly into trading insults?

TO has always been a flame-zone, even within tribes. But I know that you 
(and others) have the capacity to engage with the topic at hand, but you 
(and others) frequently torpedo a discussion virtually from the get-go.

Your responses here are a case in point, displaying disproportionate 
disdain and invective, and little substance.

Is this incarnation of TO (post-GG meteorite impact) the last remnant of 
jaded and cantankerous dinosaurs? Is there a general disregard/contempt 
for creationists, or anyone with a differing viewpoint? Or pressure to 
not break ranks and give any ground in debate? Or intrinsic ideological 
suspicions animosities?

Often enough, frustration and a sharp response is understandable. I get 
that (and I'm not guiltless, either way). But this forum can't be much 
value or fun for anyone.