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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: OT: "Free speech" becomes a verb & noun...
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 17:20:52 -0500
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On 1/31/2025 4:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2025 at 12:36:27 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/31/2025 1:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>   On Jan 31, 2025 at 9:37:23 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>   
>>>>   On 1/30/2025 6:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>     On Jan 30, 2025 at 2:43:15 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>>     On 1/30/2025 4:02 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>       On Jan 30, 2025 at 12:13:03 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>       On 1/30/2025 1:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>         On Jan 30, 2025 at 9:47:35 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>         On 1/29/2025 11:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           On Jan 29, 2025 at 8:37:20 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>>       "Trump administration to cancel student visas of pro-Palestinian
>>>>>>>>>>>>       protesters"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>     It's a deportable offense under the U.S. Code for a resident alien to
>>>>>>>>>>>     advocate for or express support for a terrorist organization.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         So then, I'm guessing this administration would've championed
>>>>>>>>>>         deportations from Skokie in '77.  What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>       Was there a designated terrorist organization involved in Skokie,
>>>>>>>>> and were
>>>>>>>>>       the participants resident aliens or American citizens?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Is "pro-Palestine" a terrorist organization?
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       Nice try. Waving the actual flag of Hamas is not simply 'pro-Palestine'.
>>>>>>>       Neither is chanting the official Hamas motto from its own charter:
>>>>>>>   "From the
>>>>>>>       river to the sea."
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>          Is pro-Nazi not?
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       The American Nazi Party was not a designated terrorist organization and
>>>>>>>   even
>>>>>>>       if it was, all those marching were American citizens, not resident
>>>>>>> aliens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     "A designated terrorist organization" sounds a lot like "It's different
>>>>>>     when WE do it".
>>>>>     
>>>>>     Regardless, if a group hasn't been listed as a designated terrorist
>>>>> group by
>>>>>     the Department of State, then the statute does not apply. Back in the 70s,
>>>>>     when the Skokie march occurred, the American Nazi Party was not a
>>>>> designated
>>>>>     terrorist organization, nor were the participants foreign nationals.
>>>>>     
>>>>>>     Trump is punishing these students for their speech
>>>>>     
>>>>>     No, he's enforcing American immigration law, something that you apparently
>>>>>     can't stand, and which Biden failed to do for four straight years. No,
>>>>>   that's
>>>>>     wrong. Biden didn't fail to do it. That implies a lack of intent. He
>>>>> refused
>>>>>     to do it.
>>>>>     
>>>>>>     once again leveraging populist spleen to flout bedrock American
>>>>>> principles.
>>>>>     
>>>>>     It's not an American principle to allow agents of violent foreign
>>>>> jihadists
>>>>>     that hate America to come to this country and radicalize our own
>>>>> population
>>>>>   to
>>>>>     their cause. That is in no way, shape, or form something the 1st Amendment
>>>>>   was
>>>>>     intended to protect.
>>>>>     
>>>>>>       I can't fathom any free-speech advocate's support of this.
>>>>>     
>>>>>     Well, I can't fathom your constant opposition to most of what the 1st
>>>>>     Amendment *does* protect, so we'll call it a wash.
>>>>
>>>>   Call it a whitewash, because it is.  These students are being punished
>>>>   for voicing support of Palestine
>>>   
>>>   If they're hoisting the flag of Hamas and chanting "from the river to the
>>>   sea", then they're doing a lot more than voicing support for Palestine.
>>>   American citizens are allowed to do that but if you're a guest in our
>>> country
>>>   you better be on your best behavior and not go all in for a terrorist
>>>   organization that advocates for the destruction of America.
>>>   
>>>   We don't need you here. You have no right to be here. So endorsing a group
>>>   whose stated goal is the destruction of our country (along with Israel)
>>> while
>>>   here as our guest has consequences. Fuck around and find out.
>>>   
>>>>   Suffice to suppose that, if this deportation initiative were Democratic,
>>>>   you'd be apoplectic.
>>>   
>>>   I'd be apoplectic because I'd be shocked to my core that the current crop of
>>>   Democrats were actually deporting anyone for anything.
>>>   
>>>   My idiotic mayor, fresh off her spectacularly appalling performance during
>>> the
>>>   wildfires, was on TV yesterday reassuring "the immigrant community" that the
>>>   city of Los Angeles will protect you from ICE no matter what crimes you've
>>>   committed. She's literally on TV telling rapists, murderers, thieves, and
>>>   narco-traffickers that she has their back.
>>>   
>>>   Never mind that "the immigrant community" she's so worried about has no
>>> desire
>>>   to have those violent shitbags turned loose on their streets any more than
>>>   anyone else does.
>>
>> I get that you're pleased with the practical result of Trump's vendetta,
>> just as (I assume) you're pleased that we've let Trump skate on
>> attempted election corruption.  I just can't see how you're comfortable
>> with the cost to our basic principles (...with more likely to follow).
> 
> What basic principles require us to tolerate the presence of illegal aliens at
> all, let alone illegal aliens that commit depraved violent crimes against our
> citizens?

So, the ends justify the means?