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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: OT: "Free speech" becomes a verb & noun...
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:25:01 -0500
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On 1/31/2025 5:45 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2025 at 2:20:52 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/31/2025 4:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>   On Jan 31, 2025 at 12:36:27 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>   
>>>>   On 1/31/2025 1:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>     On Jan 31, 2025 at 9:37:23 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>>     On 1/30/2025 6:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>       On Jan 30, 2025 at 2:43:15 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>       On 1/30/2025 4:02 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>         On Jan 30, 2025 at 12:13:03 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>         On 1/30/2025 1:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           On Jan 30, 2025 at 9:47:35 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>>           On 1/29/2025 11:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>             On Jan 29, 2025 at 8:37:20 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         "Trump administration to cancel student visas of pro-Palestinian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         protesters"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       It's a deportable offense under the U.S. Code for a resident alien to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       advocate for or express support for a terrorist organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>           So then, I'm guessing this administration would've championed
>>>>>>>>>>>>           deportations from Skokie in '77.  What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>         Was there a designated terrorist organization involved in Skokie,
>>>>>>>>>>>   and were
>>>>>>>>>>>         the participants resident aliens or American citizens?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Is "pro-Palestine" a terrorist organization?
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>         Nice try. Waving the actual flag of Hamas is not simply
>>>>>>>>> 'pro-Palestine'.
>>>>>>>>>         Neither is chanting the official Hamas motto from its own charter:
>>>>>>>>>     "From the
>>>>>>>>>         river to the sea."
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>            Is pro-Nazi not?
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>         The American Nazi Party was not a designated terrorist
>>>>>>>>> organization and
>>>>>>>>>     even
>>>>>>>>>         if it was, all those marching were American citizens, not resident
>>>>>>>>>   aliens.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       "A designated terrorist organization" sounds a lot like "It's different
>>>>>>>>       when WE do it".
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       Regardless, if a group hasn't been listed as a designated terrorist
>>>>>>>   group by
>>>>>>>       the Department of State, then the statute does not apply. Back in
>>>>>>> the 70s,
>>>>>>>       when the Skokie march occurred, the American Nazi Party was not a
>>>>>>>   designated
>>>>>>>       terrorist organization, nor were the participants foreign nationals.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>       Trump is punishing these students for their speech
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       No, he's enforcing American immigration law, something that you
>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>       can't stand, and which Biden failed to do for four straight years. No,
>>>>>>>     that's
>>>>>>>       wrong. Biden didn't fail to do it. That implies a lack of intent. He
>>>>>>>   refused
>>>>>>>       to do it.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>       once again leveraging populist spleen to flout bedrock American
>>>>>>>>   principles.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       It's not an American principle to allow agents of violent foreign
>>>>>>>   jihadists
>>>>>>>       that hate America to come to this country and radicalize our own
>>>>>>>   population
>>>>>>>     to
>>>>>>>       their cause. That is in no way, shape, or form something the 1st
>>>>>>> Amendment
>>>>>>>     was
>>>>>>>       intended to protect.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>         I can't fathom any free-speech advocate's support of this.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       Well, I can't fathom your constant opposition to most of what the 1st
>>>>>>>       Amendment *does* protect, so we'll call it a wash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Call it a whitewash, because it is.  These students are being punished
>>>>>>     for voicing support of Palestine
>>>>>     
>>>>>     If they're hoisting the flag of Hamas and chanting "from the river to the
>>>>>     sea", then they're doing a lot more than voicing support for Palestine.
>>>>>     American citizens are allowed to do that but if you're a guest in our
>>>>>   country
>>>>>     you better be on your best behavior and not go all in for a terrorist
>>>>>     organization that advocates for the destruction of America.
>>>>>     
>>>>>     We don't need you here. You have no right to be here. So endorsing a group
>>>>>     whose stated goal is the destruction of our country (along with Israel)
>>>>>   while
>>>>>     here as our guest has consequences. Fuck around and find out.
>>>>>     
>>>>>>     Suffice to suppose that, if this deportation initiative were Democratic,
>>>>>>     you'd be apoplectic.
>>>>>     
>>>>>     I'd be apoplectic because I'd be shocked to my core that the current
>>>>> crop of
>>>>>     Democrats were actually deporting anyone for anything.
>>>>>     
>>>>>     My idiotic mayor, fresh off her spectacularly appalling performance during
>>>>>   the
>>>>>     wildfires, was on TV yesterday reassuring "the immigrant community"
>>>>> that the
>>>>>     city of Los Angeles will protect you from ICE no matter what crimes you've
>>>>>     committed. She's literally on TV telling rapists, murderers, thieves, and
>>>>>     narco-traffickers that she has their back.
>>>>>     
>>>>>     Never mind that "the immigrant community" she's so worried about has no
>>>>>   desire
>>>>>     to have those violent shitbags turned loose on their streets any more than
>>>>>     anyone else does.
>>>>
>>>>   I get that you're pleased with the practical result of Trump's vendetta,
>>>>   just as (I assume) you're pleased that we've let Trump skate on
>>>>   attempted election corruption.  I just can't see how you're comfortable
>>>>   with the cost to our basic principles (...with more likely to follow).
>>>   
>>>   What basic principles require us to tolerate the presence of illegal aliens
>>> at
>>>   all, let alone illegal aliens that commit depraved violent crimes against
>>> our
>>>   citizens?
>>
>> So, the ends justify the means?
> 
> Still waiting for you to describe ehat basic principles require us to tolerate
> the presence of illegal aliens at all, let alone illegal aliens that commit
> depraved violent crimes against our citizens?
> 
> And what "means" are you talking about? Police finding the criminals like they
> would any other fugitive, arresting them, and putting them on a plane back to
> their country of origin? Those "means"? Yes, they are most certainly
> justified.

The "means" are the abrogation of our free-speech principle, and our 
turning a blind eye to blatant election fraud.  And, yes, I consider 
those more basic to democracy than, e.g., any sort of border laxity.