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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: OT: "Free speech" becomes a verb & noun...
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2025 12:04:13 -0500
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On 1/31/2025 6:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2025 at 3:25:01 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/31/2025 5:45 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>   On Jan 31, 2025 at 2:20:52 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>   
>>>>   On 1/31/2025 4:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>     On Jan 31, 2025 at 12:36:27 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>>     On 1/31/2025 1:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>       On Jan 31, 2025 at 9:37:23 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>       On 1/30/2025 6:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>         On Jan 30, 2025 at 2:43:15 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>         On 1/30/2025 4:02 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           On Jan 30, 2025 at 12:13:03 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>>           On 1/30/2025 1:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>             On Jan 30, 2025 at 9:47:35 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             On 1/29/2025 11:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               On Jan 29, 2025 at 8:37:20 PM PST, "moviePig"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           "Trump administration to cancel student visas of pro-Palestinian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           protesters"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         It's a deportable offense under the U.S. Code for a resident alien to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         advocate for or express support for a terrorist organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             So then, I'm guessing this administration would've championed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             deportations from Skokie in '77.  What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>>>>>           Was there a designated terrorist organization involved in Skokie,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>           the participants resident aliens or American citizens?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>           Is "pro-Palestine" a terrorist organization?
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>           Nice try. Waving the actual flag of Hamas is not simply
>>>>>>>>>>>   'pro-Palestine'.
>>>>>>>>>>>           Neither is chanting the official Hamas motto from its own charter:
>>>>>>>>>>>       "From the
>>>>>>>>>>>           river to the sea."
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>>              Is pro-Nazi not?
>>>>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>           The American Nazi Party was not a designated terrorist
>>>>>>>>>>>   organization and
>>>>>>>>>>>       even
>>>>>>>>>>>           if it was, all those marching were American citizens, not resident
>>>>>>>>>>>     aliens.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         "A designated terrorist organization" sounds a lot like "It's
>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>         when WE do it".
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>         Regardless, if a group hasn't been listed as a designated terrorist
>>>>>>>>>     group by
>>>>>>>>>         the Department of State, then the statute does not apply. Back in
>>>>>>>>>   the 70s,
>>>>>>>>>         when the Skokie march occurred, the American Nazi Party was not a
>>>>>>>>>     designated
>>>>>>>>>         terrorist organization, nor were the participants foreign nationals.
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>         Trump is punishing these students for their speech
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>         No, he's enforcing American immigration law, something that you
>>>>>>>>>   apparently
>>>>>>>>>         can't stand, and which Biden failed to do for four straight years. No,
>>>>>>>>>       that's
>>>>>>>>>         wrong. Biden didn't fail to do it. That implies a lack of intent. He
>>>>>>>>>     refused
>>>>>>>>>         to do it.
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>         once again leveraging populist spleen to flout bedrock American
>>>>>>>>>>     principles.
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>         It's not an American principle to allow agents of violent foreign
>>>>>>>>>     jihadists
>>>>>>>>>         that hate America to come to this country and radicalize our own
>>>>>>>>>     population
>>>>>>>>>       to
>>>>>>>>>         their cause. That is in no way, shape, or form something the 1st
>>>>>>>>>   Amendment
>>>>>>>>>       was
>>>>>>>>>         intended to protect.
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>>           I can't fathom any free-speech advocate's support of this.
>>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>>         Well, I can't fathom your constant opposition to most of what the 1st
>>>>>>>>>         Amendment *does* protect, so we'll call it a wash.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Call it a whitewash, because it is.  These students are being punished
>>>>>>>>       for voicing support of Palestine
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       If they're hoisting the flag of Hamas and chanting "from the river
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>       sea", then they're doing a lot more than voicing support for Palestine.
>>>>>>>       American citizens are allowed to do that but if you're a guest in our
>>>>>>>     country
>>>>>>>       you better be on your best behavior and not go all in for a terrorist
>>>>>>>       organization that advocates for the destruction of America.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       We don't need you here. You have no right to be here. So endorsing
>>>>>>> a group
>>>>>>>       whose stated goal is the destruction of our country (along with Israel)
>>>>>>>     while
>>>>>>>       here as our guest has consequences. Fuck around and find out.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>       Suffice to suppose that, if this deportation initiative were Democratic,
>>>>>>>>       you'd be apoplectic.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       I'd be apoplectic because I'd be shocked to my core that the current
>>>>>>>   crop of
>>>>>>>       Democrats were actually deporting anyone for anything.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       My idiotic mayor, fresh off her spectacularly appalling performance
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>     the
>>>>>>>       wildfires, was on TV yesterday reassuring "the immigrant community"
>>>>>>>   that the
>>>>>>>       city of Los Angeles will protect you from ICE no matter what crimes
>>>>>>> you've
>>>>>>>       committed. She's literally on TV telling rapists, murderers,
>>>>>>> thieves, and
>>>>>>>       narco-traffickers that she has their back.
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>       Never mind that "the immigrant community" she's so worried about has no
>>>>>>>     desire
>>>>>>>       to have those violent shitbags turned loose on their streets any
>>>>>>> more than
>>>>>>>       anyone else does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I get that you're pleased with the practical result of Trump's vendetta,
>>>>>>     just as (I assume) you're pleased that we've let Trump skate on
>>>>>>     attempted election corruption.  I just can't see how you're comfortable
>>>>>>     with the cost to our basic principles (...with more likely to follow).
>>>>>     
>>>>>     What basic principles require us to tolerate the presence of illegal
>>>>> aliens
>>>>>   at
>>>>>     all, let alone illegal aliens that commit depraved violent crimes against
>>>>>   our
>>>>>     citizens?
>>>>
>>>>   So, the ends justify the means?
>>>   
>>>   Still waiting for you to describe ehat basic principles require us to
>>> tolerate
>>>   the presence of illegal aliens at all, let alone illegal aliens that commit
>>>   depraved violent crimes against our citizens?
>>>   
>>>   And what "means" are you talking about? Police finding the criminals like
>>> they
>>>   would any other fugitive, arresting them, and putting them on a plane back
>>> to
>>>   their country of origin? Those "means"? Yes, they are most certainly
>>>   justified.
>>
>> The "means" are the abrogation of our free-speech principle
> 
> Says the guy who has no problem with censorship if government decides the
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