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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: OT: "Free speech" becomes a verb & noun...
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2025 17:13:16 -0000 (UTC)
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On Feb 1, 2025 at 9:04:13 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 1/31/2025 6:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>  On Jan 31, 2025 at 3:25:01 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>  
>>>  On 1/31/2025 5:45 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>    On Jan 31, 2025 at 2:20:52 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>>    On 1/31/2025 4:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>      On Jan 31, 2025 at 12:36:27 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>      On 1/31/2025 1:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>        On Jan 31, 2025 at 9:37:23 AM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>>        On 1/30/2025 6:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>          On Jan 30, 2025 at 2:43:15 PM PST, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>>          On 1/30/2025 4:02 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>            On Jan 30, 2025 at 12:13:03 PM PST, "moviePig"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>      wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>>>>>>>            On 1/30/2025 1:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              On Jan 30, 2025 at 9:47:35 AM PST, "moviePig"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              On 1/29/2025 11:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                On Jan 29, 2025 at 8:37:20 PM PST, "moviePig"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  <nobody@nowhere.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            "Trump administration to cancel student visas of pro-Palestinian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            protesters"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-cancel-student-visas-all-hamas-sympathizers-white-house-2025-01-29/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          It's a deportable offense under the U.S. Code for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resident alien to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          advocate for or express support for a terrorist organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              So then, I'm guessing this administration would've championed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              deportations from Skokie in '77.  What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            Was there a designated terrorist organization involved in Skokie,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      and were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            the participants resident aliens or American citizens?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>            Is "pro-Palestine" a terrorist organization?
>>>>>>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>>>>>>            Nice try. Waving the actual flag of Hamas is not simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>    'pro-Palestine'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>            Neither is chanting the official Hamas motto from its own charter:
>>>>>>>>>>>>        "From the
>>>>>>>>>>>>            river to the sea."
>>>>>>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>>>>>>>               Is pro-Nazi not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>>>>>>            The American Nazi Party was not a designated terrorist
>>>>>>>>>>>>    organization and
>>>>>>>>>>>>        even
>>>>>>>>>>>>            if it was, all those marching were American citizens, not resident
>>>>>>>>>>>>      aliens.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>          "A designated terrorist organization" sounds a lot like "It's
>>>>>>>>>>>  different
>>>>>>>>>>>          when WE do it".
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>          Regardless, if a group hasn't been listed as a designated terrorist
>>>>>>>>>>      group by
>>>>>>>>>>          the Department of State, then the statute does not apply. Back in
>>>>>>>>>>    the 70s,
>>>>>>>>>>          when the Skokie march occurred, the American Nazi Party was not a
>>>>>>>>>>      designated
>>>>>>>>>>          terrorist organization, nor were the participants foreign nationals.
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>>          Trump is punishing these students for their speech
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>          No, he's enforcing American immigration law, something that you
>>>>>>>>>>    apparently
>>>>>>>>>>          can't stand, and which Biden failed to do for four straight
>>>>>>>>>> years. No,
>>>>>>>>>>        that's
>>>>>>>>>>          wrong. Biden didn't fail to do it. That implies a lack of intent. He
>>>>>>>>>>      refused
>>>>>>>>>>          to do it.
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>>          once again leveraging populist spleen to flout bedrock American
>>>>>>>>>>>      principles.
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>          It's not an American principle to allow agents of violent foreign
>>>>>>>>>>      jihadists
>>>>>>>>>>          that hate America to come to this country and radicalize our own
>>>>>>>>>>      population
>>>>>>>>>>        to
>>>>>>>>>>          their cause. That is in no way, shape, or form something the 1st
>>>>>>>>>>    Amendment
>>>>>>>>>>        was
>>>>>>>>>>          intended to protect.
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>>            I can't fathom any free-speech advocate's support of this.
>>>>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>>>>          Well, I can't fathom your constant opposition to most of
>>>>>>>>>> what the 1st
>>>>>>>>>>          Amendment *does* protect, so we'll call it a wash.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>        Call it a whitewash, because it is.  These students are being punished
>>>>>>>>>        for voicing support of Palestine
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>        If they're hoisting the flag of Hamas and chanting "from the river
>>>>>>>>  to the
>>>>>>>>        sea", then they're doing a lot more than voicing support for
>>>>>>>> Palestine.
>>>>>>>>        American citizens are allowed to do that but if you're a guest in our
>>>>>>>>      country
>>>>>>>>        you better be on your best behavior and not go all in for a terrorist
>>>>>>>>        organization that advocates for the destruction of America.
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>        We don't need you here. You have no right to be here. So endorsing
>>>>>>>>  a group
>>>>>>>>        whose stated goal is the destruction of our country (along with
>>>>>>>> Israel)
>>>>>>>>      while
>>>>>>>>        here as our guest has consequences. Fuck around and find out.
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>>        Suffice to suppose that, if this deportation initiative were
>>>>>>>>> Democratic,
>>>>>>>>>        you'd be apoplectic.
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>        I'd be apoplectic because I'd be shocked to my core that the current
>>>>>>>>    crop of
>>>>>>>>        Democrats were actually deporting anyone for anything.
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>        My idiotic mayor, fresh off her spectacularly appalling performance
>>>>>>>>  during
>>>>>>>>      the
>>>>>>>>        wildfires, was on TV yesterday reassuring "the immigrant community"
>>>>>>>>    that the
>>>>>>>>        city of Los Angeles will protect you from ICE no matter what crimes
>>>>>>>>  you've
>>>>>>>>        committed. She's literally on TV telling rapists, murderers,
>>>>>>>>  thieves, and
>>>>>>>>        narco-traffickers that she has their back.
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>        Never mind that "the immigrant community" she's so worried
>>>>>>>> about has no
>>>>>>>>      desire
>>>>>>>>        to have those violent shitbags turned loose on their streets any
>>>>>>>>  more than
>>>>>>>>        anyone else does.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>      I get that you're pleased with the practical result of Trump's vendetta,
>>>>>>>      just as (I assume) you're pleased that we've let Trump skate on
>>>>>>>      attempted election corruption.  I just can't see how you're comfortable
>>>>>>>      with the cost to our basic principles (...with more likely to follow).
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>      What basic principles require us to tolerate the presence of illegal
>>>>>>  aliens
>>>>>>    at
>>>>>>      all, let alone illegal aliens that commit depraved violent crimes
>>>>>> against
>>>>>>    our
>>>>>>      citizens?
>>>>> 
>>>>>    So, the ends justify the means?
>>>>    
>>>>    Still waiting for you to describe what basic principles require us to
>>>>  tolerate
>>>>    the presence of illegal aliens at all, let alone illegal aliens that
>>>> commit
>>>>    depraved violent crimes against our citizens?
>>>>    
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