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Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.xcski.com!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Mark Isaak <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Paradoxes Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2025 09:26:49 -0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 45 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <vo844p$4tr2$1@dont-email.me> References: <vmqoq0$10mf5$2@dont-email.me> <vmv0pd$1u4nk$1@dont-email.me> <vmv6km$22ou8$2@dont-email.me> <3ne8pj575iefq71id6p87uposrvsc3124s@4ax.com> <vn2inq$2ph5q$1@dont-email.me> <jebapj5i6aku8rtqsscka5rriplua5itba@4ax.com> <vn48vk$38qmu$1@dont-email.me> <1abbpj17tuh66eujbpl1m6dldnuf7n2vun@4ax.com> <vn4f6v$3edug$1@dont-email.me> <bcnbpjh50r4v9v8igrfkq298etk7gs0e8n@4ax.com> <vn5584$3mhc6$1@dont-email.me> <k8pcpj509sre1veqqu9q9b7iu8mrcmcp4n@4ax.com> <vn635o$1q7s$4@dont-email.me> <cf3epjhhf91ihq6i5t7mnvi5bm399146bg@4ax.com> <vn75jq$inai$1@dont-email.me> <vno9ls$pjp2$1@dont-email.me> <vnpolv$14ogp$3@dont-email.me> <vnque1$1cir8$1@dont-email.me> <vnrclf$1fh9c$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="96234"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:psSHHVPbickCCUR9l7QP5clse3c= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 4140B22978C; Sat, 08 Feb 2025 12:27:00 -0500 (EST) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B6FD229783 for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Sat, 08 Feb 2025 12:26:58 -0500 (EST) id 895EE1C25BA; Sat, 8 Feb 2025 17:26:53 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by newsfeed.bofh.team (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E9B61C0797 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sat, 8 Feb 2025 17:26:53 +0000 (UTC) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 181705FD2D for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sat, 8 Feb 2025 17:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/181705FD2D; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=curioustaxon.omy.net id C7227DC01CA; Sat, 8 Feb 2025 18:26:50 +0100 (CET) X-Injection-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 18:26:50 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX18rJWOD+p64YtWAGs9hwqJhDXOpw45epsE= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <vnrclf$1fh9c$1@dont-email.me> tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_IN_WELCOMELIST,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 4944 On 2/3/25 1:32 PM, MarkE wrote: > On 4/02/2025 4:29 am, Ernest Major wrote: >> On 03/02/2025 06:45, MarkE wrote: >>> On 3/02/2025 4:23 am, Mark Isaak wrote: >>>> On 1/26/25 9:29 PM, MarkE wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> An atheistic worldview may preference naturalistic options, and a >>>>> theistic worldview may preference the God option. We may give more >>>>> weight and consideration to a particular explanation based, in >>>>> part, on our belief. >>>>> >>>>> Moreover, science itself can tell us nothing about this postulated >>>>> agent. That is the task of other epistemological domains >>>>> (philosophy, theology, personal experience, etc). Nevertheless, >>>>> science can provide an evidential pointer to God as a possible >>>>> explanation. >>>>> >>>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> If I believed in the god you believe in, I would be an atheist. >>>> >>> >>> How so? >>> >>> Just to clarify, I believe that the material world and the study and >>> understanding of it reveals much about its creator, e.g. "The heavens >>> declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his >>> hands." (Psalm 19:1). This is so-called "natural theology". But >>> science has no access to the things of God available only through >>> "special revelation". >>> >> >> To put it in a few words, a god of the gaps is no god at all. > > Which is why I argue for science pointing to the God-of-the-gulfs (as > you may recall): https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/Q0H4U47iYgk/ > m/2fprGczIBwAJ Which is a god of the gaps. It is purely your imagination that science points at a god there. -- Mark Isaak "Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between 'That doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.'" - Mary Doria Russell