Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Sufficient knowledge of C proves that DD specifies
 non-terminating behavior to HHH
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 06:45:17 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 104
Message-ID: <vocsct$172u5$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vnumf8$24cq0$1@dont-email.me> <vo2us8$32kg8$1@dont-email.me>
 <228a9804d6919149bac728ccf08134ed90db121e@i2pn2.org>
 <vo3cf0$35449$1@dont-email.me>
 <6f15178eda69b13fae9cbfef29acad05c9c6aeb3@i2pn2.org>
 <vo3t3n$37kcg$1@dont-email.me>
 <1454e934b709b66a0cb9de9e9796cb46fed0425c@i2pn2.org>
 <vo5c8c$3ipo2$2@dont-email.me>
 <f7f9c03f97de054f6393139c74f595f68400ede5@i2pn2.org>
 <vo6b14$3o0uo$1@dont-email.me>
 <274abb70abec9d461ac3eb34c0980b7421f5fabd@i2pn2.org>
 <vo6rhd$3tsq7$1@dont-email.me> <vo79pq$8vq$2@dont-email.me>
 <vo7qqb$36ra$2@dont-email.me> <vo8jr6$7fbd$2@dont-email.me>
 <vo9gth$fuct$2@dont-email.me> <vo9o3h$gu6t$2@dont-email.me>
 <voah0r$m3dj$6@dont-email.me> <voambu$ng5r$2@dont-email.me>
 <voamvc$nv62$1@dont-email.me> <voatki$p4au$2@dont-email.me>
 <voau7d$p4sc$2@dont-email.me> <voavuf$p4au$4@dont-email.me>
 <vob15v$ptj9$1@dont-email.me>
 <e3693316b91f4bd357aa26a12ebd469086c11c65@i2pn2.org>
 <vocpt8$16c4e$5@dont-email.me>
 <2f4f3ffdb308d743324591c52cbe9d73c7b28173@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 13:45:18 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c492ea1606c78cee9e5da7f1d71e9cb2";
	logging-data="1280965"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/U7PkpVB6OJisTmk65xUb+"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:fIPno1N4UnHpBdoAIWPOfHI9Tbg=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <2f4f3ffdb308d743324591c52cbe9d73c7b28173@i2pn2.org>
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250210-0, 2/9/2025), Outbound message
Bytes: 6315

On 2/10/2025 6:37 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 2/10/25 7:02 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 2/10/2025 5:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Sun, 09 Feb 2025 13:54:39 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 2/9/2025 1:33 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 20:04 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 12:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 18:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 10:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 16:18 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 2:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 07:10 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 15:47 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:57 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 06:53 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 7:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 8:12 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 5:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 11:26 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 6:20 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 10:02 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 8:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 5:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 1:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 10:52 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 16:11 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2025 1:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 04:38 schrieb olcott:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which proves that HHH fails to make a correct decision about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD's halting behaviour. All other methods (direct execution,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation by a world class simulator, etc.) show that DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts. But HHH fails to see it. Everyone with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of programming sees that HHH is not correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed when it aborts one cycle before the simulation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> end normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace only shows that HHH is unable to complete 
>>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>>> simulation, because HHH is unable to simulate itself.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It turns out that Olcott does not even understand this simple 
>>>>>>>>> proof
>>>>>>>>> that HHH produces false negatives. HHH is unable to simulate 
>>>>>>>>> itself
>>>>>>>>> up to the normal termination.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, in other words, Olcott denies verified facts.
>>>>>>> HHH generates false negatives, as is verified in
>>>>>>>          int main() {
>>>>>>>            return HHH(main);
>>>>>>>          }
>>>>>>> but he denies it.
>>>>>>> He lacks the ability to accept simple verified facts, which he tries
>>>>>>> to hide with a lot of irrelevant words.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a verified fact that main cannot possibly be correctly 
>>>>>> simulated
>>>>>> by HHH until its normal termination.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, which proves that HHH is unable to simulate itself correctly.
>>>>
>>>> If this was true then you could point out exactly where HHH is
>>>> incorrect.
>>
>>> HHH is supposed to be a decider, i.e. halt and return the correct value.
>>>
>>
>> The directly executed HHH(DD) always halts and returns a correct
>> value as soon as it correctly determines that its input cannot
>> possibly terminate normally.
> 
> But that answer ISN'T "correct" becuase the input when run DOES 
> terminate normally.
> 

typedef void (*ptr)();
int HHH(ptr P);

int DD()
{
   int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
   if (Halt_Status)
     HERE: goto HERE;
   return Halt_Status;
}

int main()
{
   HHH(DD);
}

DD simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally.
This might not be dead obvious to people that hardly
understand the C programming language at all.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer