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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Sufficient knowledge of C proves that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 15:38:37 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 90 Message-ID: <vodrkt$1d1gu$1@dont-email.me> References: <vnumf8$24cq0$1@dont-email.me> <vo3cf0$35449$1@dont-email.me> <6f15178eda69b13fae9cbfef29acad05c9c6aeb3@i2pn2.org> <vo3t3n$37kcg$1@dont-email.me> <1454e934b709b66a0cb9de9e9796cb46fed0425c@i2pn2.org> <vo5c8c$3ipo2$2@dont-email.me> <f7f9c03f97de054f6393139c74f595f68400ede5@i2pn2.org> <vo6b14$3o0uo$1@dont-email.me> <274abb70abec9d461ac3eb34c0980b7421f5fabd@i2pn2.org> <vo6rhd$3tsq7$1@dont-email.me> <vo79pq$8vq$2@dont-email.me> <vo7qqb$36ra$2@dont-email.me> <vo8jr6$7fbd$2@dont-email.me> <vo9gth$fuct$2@dont-email.me> <vo9o3h$gu6t$2@dont-email.me> <voah0r$m3dj$6@dont-email.me> <voambu$ng5r$2@dont-email.me> <voamvc$nv62$1@dont-email.me> <voatki$p4au$2@dont-email.me> <voau7d$p4sc$2@dont-email.me> <voavuf$p4au$4@dont-email.me> <vob15v$ptj9$1@dont-email.me> <e3693316b91f4bd357aa26a12ebd469086c11c65@i2pn2.org> <vocpt8$16c4e$5@dont-email.me> <7ad847dee2cf3bc54cddc66a1e521f8a7242c01f@i2pn2.org> <vod3ft$18eoa$1@dont-email.me> <50488790b3d697cccde5689919b1d1d001b01965@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 22:38:38 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c492ea1606c78cee9e5da7f1d71e9cb2"; logging-data="1476126"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1884auviSo7dd68s8s0kgca" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:4tWTE9V6vBi0ADIFAWDKeS8gThA= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250210-8, 2/10/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: <50488790b3d697cccde5689919b1d1d001b01965@i2pn2.org> Bytes: 6821 On 2/10/2025 2:48 PM, joes wrote: > Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 08:46:21 -0600 schrieb olcott: >> On 2/10/2025 6:52 AM, joes wrote: >>> Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 06:02:48 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>> On 2/10/2025 5:16 AM, joes wrote: >>>>> Am Sun, 09 Feb 2025 13:54:39 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>> On 2/9/2025 1:33 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 20:04 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 12:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 18:00 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 10:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 16:18 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 2:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 07:10 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 15:47 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:57 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 06:53 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 7:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 8:12 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 5:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 11:26 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 6:20 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 10:02 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 8:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 5:18 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 1:26 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 10:52 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 16:11 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2025 1:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 04:38 schrieb olcott: >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which proves that HHH fails to make a correct decision >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about DD's halting behaviour. All other methods (direct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> execution, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation by a world class simulator, etc.) show that DD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts. But HHH fails to see it. Everyone with sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of programming sees that HHH is not correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed when it aborts one cycle before the simulation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would end normally. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace only shows that HHH is unable to complete >>>>>>>>>>>>> its simulation, because HHH is unable to simulate itself. >>>>>>>>>>> It turns out that Olcott does not even understand this simple >>>>>>>>>>> proof that HHH produces false negatives. HHH is unable to >>>>>>>>>>> simulate itself up to the normal termination. >>>>>>>>> So, in other words, Olcott denies verified facts. >>>>>>>>> HHH generates false negatives, as is verified in >>>>>>>>> int main() { >>>>>>>>> return HHH(main); >>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>> but he denies it. >>>>>>>>> He lacks the ability to accept simple verified facts, which he >>>>>>>>> tries to hide with a lot of irrelevant words. >>>>>>>> It is a verified fact that main cannot possibly be correctly >>>>>>>> simulated by HHH until its normal termination. >>>>>>> Indeed, which proves that HHH is unable to simulate itself >>>>>>> correctly. >>>>>> If this was true then you could point out exactly where HHH is >>>>>> incorrect. >>>>> HHH is supposed to be a decider, i.e. halt and return the correct >>>>> value. >>>> The directly executed HHH(DD) always halts and returns a correct value >>>> as soon as it correctly determines that its input cannot possibly >>>> terminate normally. >>> We were talking about HHH(HHH). If the outer HHH halts according to >>> spec, so does the inner, because it is the same. Therefore it can’t >>> report „non-halting” and be correct. If the inner HHH doesn’t halt, it >>> is not a decider. > RSVP > >>>>>> Here is the code point out the (nonexistent) error: >>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c#L502 >>> Look at it. >> That is not an error. >> It is a verified fact that DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly >> terminate normally. The line you referred to does not change that >> verified fact. > You didn’t look at it. > I did look at it and was pleased that you noticed the significance of this line-of-code. None-the-less it does not and cannot possibly alter the truism that DD simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer