Path: ...!news.misty.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.logic
Subject: Re: Mathematical incompleteness has always been a misconception ---
 Tarski
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:05:25 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 120
Message-ID: <voflf5$1q1mh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vnh0sq$35mcm$1@dont-email.me> <vnikre$3hb19$1@dont-email.me>
 <vnkov9$1971$1@dont-email.me> <vnl9vj$4f8i$1@dont-email.me>
 <vnndqs$kef3$1@dont-email.me> <vnpd96$vl84$1@dont-email.me>
 <vnqm3p$1apip$1@dont-email.me> <vnqsbh$1c5sq$1@dont-email.me>
 <vnsm90$1pr86$1@dont-email.me> <vnte6s$1tra8$1@dont-email.me>
 <vnv4tf$2a43e$1@dont-email.me> <vo0249$2eqdl$1@dont-email.me>
 <vo1qae$2s4cr$1@dont-email.me> <vo2i10$302f0$1@dont-email.me>
 <vo4nj4$3f6so$1@dont-email.me> <vo5btf$3ipo2$1@dont-email.me>
 <vo7ckh$q2p$1@dont-email.me> <vo7tdg$36ra$6@dont-email.me>
 <vo9krm$3octb$1@dont-email.me> <voae76$m3dj$1@dont-email.me>
 <3f1ed83042ed4a260d1a63ef7c61528ea9858947@i2pn2.org>
 <vobaaa$rhmq$1@dont-email.me>
 <8fd6dea147c3f4bf5558d7745b93a25a5e69539f@i2pn2.org>
 <vobd7n$s681$1@dont-email.me>
 <dd621ed5b6a556fa6036c40f1ce1de6ad54151d6@i2pn2.org>
 <vobtra$129n7$1@dont-email.me>
 <73c982ee889ab3c6590565766809f18607a42b37@i2pn2.org>
 <vocuhk$17fsh$1@dont-email.me> <vof619$1ndvq$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:05:26 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2bd46967c94f87f70aef9b09a146468d";
	logging-data="1902289"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18eoiJ7NgAtb5tDB0zmu8Vx"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:xKdV19Iu/wql1jtQO0Cr4K8awrI=
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250210-8, 2/10/2025), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
In-Reply-To: <vof619$1ndvq$1@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 7176

On 2/11/2025 3:42 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2025-02-10 13:21:56 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 2/10/2025 6:41 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 2/9/25 11:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 2/9/2025 6:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 2/9/25 6:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 5:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/9/25 5:30 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 11:04 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/25 9:31 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 1:18 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2025 16:51, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 02/08/2025 07:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) Semantics is fully integrated into every expression of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> language with each unique natural language sense meaning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a word having its own GUID.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Illusion and the tyranny of delusion, ad nauseam.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And I am finishing the job. I may have only one month left.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The cancer treatment that I will have next month has a 5% 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of killing me and a 1% chance of ruining my brain. It also has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about a 70% chance of giving me at least two more years of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Food be your medicine, medicine be your food.  Conversely,
>>>>>>>>>>> good luck with any of that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of just usual model theory and axiomatics
>>>>>>>>>>>> and "what's true in the logical theory", "what's
>>>>>>>>>>>> not falsified in the scientific theory", you can
>>>>>>>>>>>> have a theory where the quantity is truth, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> then there's a Comenius language of it that only
>>>>>>>>>>>> truisms are well-formed formulas, then the Liar
>>>>>>>>>>>> "paradox" is only a prototype of a fallacy,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rather, then there is no such thing as a "fallacy", only
>>>>>>>>>>> flat positivism and Newspeak.  Indeed, Popper already is
>>>>>>>>>>> yet another bad joke at best, but WTF would you know...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In other words you did not understand what he said thus
>>>>>>>>>> replied to his words with nonsense gibberish pure rhetoric
>>>>>>>>>> with no actual basis in reasoning.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  >> there's a Comenius language of it that only
>>>>>>>>>>  >> truisms are well-formed formulas
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True(L,x) <is> a mathematical mapping from finite string
>>>>>>>>>> expressions of language through a truthmaker to finite
>>>>>>>>>> strings expressions providing formalized semantic meanings
>>>>>>>>>> making the expression true.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The prototype of a fallacy that he referred to is the
>>>>>>>>>> recursive structure of pathological self-reference that
>>>>>>>>>> never resolves to a truth value.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, such a mapping can't exist if the language allows 
>>>>>>>>> references like:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> x is defined to be !True(L, x)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When we frame it the succinct way that Ross framed it
>>>>>>>>  >> there's a Comenius language of it that only
>>>>>>>>  >> truisms are well-formed formulas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And if True(L, x) isn't "well formed" then True fails to meet the 
>>>>>>> requirements of a predicate,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all. True(L,x) is no longer baffled by semantically
>>>>>> incorrect expressions and rejects them as IFF ill-formed-formula.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, what does True(L, x) say for an x defined as !True(L, x)
>>>>>
>>>>> All answers are just wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *The simplest way for you to understand this is*
>>>>
>>>> On 2/8/2025 9:51 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>  > then there's a Comenius language of it that only
>>>>  > truisms are well-formed formulas...
>>>>
>>>> In the Comenius language: x := ~True(L,x)
>>>> is rejected as an ill-formed-formula.
>>>> Ross really did boil down the essence much more succinctly.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So, what is the answer? What answer does True(L, x) return?
>>>
>> When x := ~True(L, x) then the Comenius language parser
>> returns: Syntax Error.
> 
> Which Comenius language parser you tried?
> Can you give an example of what that parser does accept?
> 

There is an inheritance hierarchy tree of knowledge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science)
containing all of the basic facts. Each node on this tree
has its own unique GUID. These facts are formalized natural
language using something like Montague Grammar. This provides all
of the unique sense meanings of every natural language term.

When a finite string expression of language lacks a connection
though a truthmaker to the semantics meanings that make it
true then it is rejected as untrue.

x := ~True(L, x) is rejected as untrue where L is the
body of human knowledge.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer