Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Product idea
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 14:56:52 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <volprc$3362o$1@dont-email.me>
References: <67ab9473$15$1783$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
 <vog9lr$1tu2d$1@dont-email.me> <vogdq3$1uld9$1@dont-email.me>
 <voggm7$1v514$1@dont-email.me> <do4t7lxvhi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 <vohnjn$28iki$1@dont-email.me> <e0rpqjt9jbvfljp9gv81j4caor188raurh@4ax.com>
 <67ad8a3d$5$2328641$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
 <vokud7$2u5bj$1@dont-email.me> <volmek$32gvp$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 22:57:01 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a14f416aa9dccd48d1fdef7ddfdf9972";
	logging-data="3250264"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/ZN6NdKwOIn84uQ8O+NC/b"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/102.2.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DOLSMVVOooE45jZj8S3+CGUC/Lg=
In-Reply-To: <volmek$32gvp$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 5502

On 2/13/2025 1:58 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 13/02/2025 14:08, Don Y wrote:
>> On 2/12/2025 11:00 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> Desktop computers that put out significant heat have gone the way of the 
>>> dodo for most people under the age of 40 probably, those who aren't PC 
>>> gamers, anyway.
>>
>> That's likely because desktop computers have gone away -- except in
>> corporate settings.
> 
> Even in corporate setting you can get things the size of a shallow lunchbox now 
> that can do everything that any normal office worker will ever need. Many of 
> them will clip onto the back of an LCD display.

Yes, I have several i7 NUCs.  But, IME, most shops are still using SFF
and USFF boxes.  I base this on the boxes that I see those firms
"recycling" (discarding).

>>> My laptop at idle doesn't heat a thing and at full tilt puts out enough to 
>>> warm up one finger, maybe.
>>
>> Laptops tend to be bad examples as they will throttle themselves to keep
>> the CPU from melting.  Desktops can rely on larger fans to spin up to
>> move more heat.
> 
> My laptop back around Y2k was I think a Pentium 4 and left permanent scorch 
> marks on the table where I used it. It was definitely not a laptop by any 
> stretch of the imagination unless you wanted to be cooked!
> 
> OK I will admit that I did run it fairly hard for max performance.

I have a similar box -- but I only use it for the in-built serial port
and *floppy* (for those cases where I need access to same).  It is
fairly heavy.

I used to have a SPARC laptop (that I regret discarding) but it was
dog slow (no doubt complicated by running Slowaris)

>> You don't realize how much heat most kit throws off until you site it
>> in a poorly ventilated area and note the temperature differential,
>> over time.
> 
> I choose systems these days for maximum performance and minimum power 
> consumption. If I am not running a heavy maths simulation and just typing like 
> I am now then in winter I can get a "Warning CPU fan 0 rpm" message - it used 
> to bother me at first until I checked the CPU temperature which was under 30C 
> so totally safe.
> 
> Modern OS and modern CPUs throttle back the clock and make all the performance 
> cores idle when there is no serious computational load.

I choose boxes based on what I can rescue (i.e., < $10).  This typically
means multiple Xeon CPUs, redundant power supplies, multiple NICs and
lots of *SAS* spindles (the sorts of boxes you would find in or around
a datacenter) -- because "mere humans" don't want to be bothered with
such behemoths (so, the boxes would just end up scrapped -- which is sinful).

The boxes that tend to run 365/24/7 are chosen to be much smaller
(so I can "hide" them, out of the way), lower power/fanless (so
I can put them *in* an occupied bedroom and not know of their
presence -- if the power LED is covered with electrical tape).

The little Atom box that does my DNS/TFTP/NTP/xfs/RDBMS/etc. has a full
system on it (including sources) so I can use it for chores that don't
need much horsepower/memory.  It is not uncommon for me to set it to
"make world" while it's providing those other services.

OTOH, rendering 3D video or SfM tends to be an iterative exercise so
I want to see results "soon" in order to change the models and turn the
crank, again.

The boxes that I use to build NASs are dreadfully over-qualified for
the application (12 core Xeons with ~100G DRAM).  But, they have the
important feature of many (8) spindles!

[Amusingly, the "system" on these resides on a 16G thumb drive tucked
inside the machine so none of the spindles is "wasted" on something
as banal as the application software!]

In the next week, I'll replace the 24" TV in the kitchen with a similarly
sized AiO so I can eliminate the attached media server (SWMBO has become
addicted to watching videos and the DVR there).  This lets me discard some
kit (I can probably find someone who wants a 24" TV more easily than a
24" computer!)