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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Don't come back, Shane
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 22:48:30 -0500
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On 2/13/2025 9:11 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 2/13/2025 1:31 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/12/2025 11:33 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>>> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-02-12 08:34:35 +0000, anim8rfsk said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/11/2025 8:53 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I first saw Shane (1953) in junior high English class. The
>>>>>>>>>> literature-appreciation curriculum loved teaching the kids about
>>>>>>>>>> "perfect" story structure, so everybody reads The Lonliness of the Long
>>>>>>>>>> Distance Runner.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We were also taught to write the highly-structured three-three essay.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As a tv viewer, there's nothing wrong with structured story telling. The
>>>>>>>>>> audience expects developments to occur at certain points; the writer of
>>>>>>>>>> the teleplay should meet those expectations. This doesn't interfere with
>>>>>>>>>> good writing, but it doesn't enhance it either.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's just structure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As a kid, I really never liked the movie all that much. It has its
>>>>>>>>>> merits: gorgeous scenery, excellent performances from Van Heflin and
>>>>>>>>>> Jean Arthur and the supporting cast, and the iconic performance of Alan
>>>>>>>>>> Ladd's career.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But the story is simplistic and the characters serve the needs of the
>>>>>>>>>> plot. Van Heflin and the nice settlers in the valley are barely eeking
>>>>>>>>>> out a living. The evil Ryker family wants to expand their cattle ranch
>>>>>>>>>> onto land they don't own if only they could drive away the settlers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the movie in which the womenfolk are stampeded and cattle raped.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Everybody else but Van Heflin wants to move because, well, the Rykers
>>>>>>>>>> are murderous. Van Heflin keeps talking them into staying which
>>>>>>>>>> predictably gets them killed because he has no plan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jack Palance, excellent in an early role and also nominated, is the
>>>>>>>>>> henchman hired by the Rykers who flat out murders Elisha Cook in a
>>>>>>>>>> famous scene. (Quick: Come up with more than three roles in which Cook
>>>>>>>>>> isn't murdered on screen or killed off screen.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The tall dark stranger rides into the valley, but he's blond and average
>>>>>>>>>> height Shane as played by Alan Ladd and we really have to suspend
>>>>>>>>>> disbelief about the men he's killed in backstory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Shane's motivation is less Truth Justice and the American Way but that
>>>>>>>>>> he's in love with Jean Arthur.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then you've got the infuriating performance from the kid Joey
>>>>>>>>>> (Oscar-nominated Brandon deWilde). The kid is SUPPOSED to be annoying.
>>>>>>>>>> Success! But he doesn't work as a point-of-view character. For the kid,
>>>>>>>>>> it's all self indulgence and instant gratification. Well, at that age,
>>>>>>>>>> we might believe it but there's nothing natural about the performance,
>>>>>>>>>> and even if he were a better actor, that he's got zero respect for his
>>>>>>>>>> father throughout much of the picture makes the audience kind of dislike
>>>>>>>>>> him, impatient with him because he never learns to understand.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nor is it a coming of age story. The kid goes through hero worship
>>>>>>>>>> phases, things don't go the way he wants them, and he hates his hero.
>>>>>>>>>> Then a responsible adult tries to explain the situation to him. He
>>>>>>>>>> claims to understand, forgives his hero then goes right back to hero
>>>>>>>>>> worshipping him.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We get better performances from several of the well-trained dogs than
>>>>>>>>>> the kid.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My opinion is in the minority. This is one of the most popular Westerns
>>>>>>>>>> both at initial release and viewers over the decades who think it's
>>>>>>>>>> stood the test of time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You forgot to mention that Shane dies at the end.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He rides into the sunset, which, as we know, circles Earth endlessly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seriously? You don’t know about this? I would think that of all people you
>>>>>>> would have understood that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It had to be pointed out to me as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Shane is dead on that horse. Deadman riding. He doesn’t move at all during
>>>>>>> any of those ending shots. The horse just rides off into the sunset with a
>>>>>>> corpse on its back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did they have test audiences back then, or did the studio moguls alone
>>>>>> have that function? Shane dying at the end couldn't have tested well
>>>>>> with the general public so perhaps that's why it's ambiguous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shane was released a couple of years after it was filmed IIRC so they
>>>>>> had plenty of time to mull the finished product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've owned the DVD for about 12-15 years so Shane can come back
>>>>>> whenever I cycle around to him.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I only heard about this for the first time within maybe the last five
>>>>> years. Might’ve been on TCM. And I first saw the movie in film class in
>>>>> college 50 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Is there definitive authority on the matter?  On the 'dead' side, there
>>>> seems little dramatic reason for his wound (and for us seeing it) than
>>>> to presage his demise.  On the 'not dead' side, the idea of a kid
>>>> yelling to a propped-up corpse is a bit Grand Guignol for '53 Hollywood.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can’t find definitive authority. It seems to be split equally between
>>> he’s dead, he’s not dead yet, but soon will be and he’s peachy keen, but
>>> there are metaphors for his way of life dying.
>>>
>>> Ian’s Wikipedia article doesn’t mention it at all but then it doesn’t even
>>> get right what the final scene is.
>>
>>  From some poking around, my guess is 'not dead' ...based on such
>> inconclusive clues as the kid's last lines:
>>
>>         Shane. Shane! Come back! Bye, Shane.
>>
>> That last "Bye Shane" drifts into grisly humor if spoken to a corpse.
>> (Also, Shane apparently doesn't die in the book ...though I'd have to
>> acknowledge that Stevens may have meant to increase that possibility.)
>>
> 
> The thing is, if you watch the end of the film, looking for it you’ll
> notice that the guy on the horse is at the very least comatose.

You'd mentioned that, so I looked for it as I watched the original 
trailer on the IMDb page.  And what I saw there was him sitting ramrod 
straight in *every* scene ...almost comically so.  Maybe I just missed 
it here, but iirc dead-man-riding scenes entail a tilt or slouch... 
(Btw, if you want to see a trailer indifferent to spoilage...)