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From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: D1.1 genotype H5N1
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2025 08:50:55 -0600
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On 2/13/2025 4:28 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 17:44:49 -0600, the following appeared
> in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
> 
>> On 2/12/2025 9:01 AM, Bob Casanova wrote:
>>> On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 08:22:22 -0600, the following appeared
>>> in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 2/11/2025 10:55 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 21:11:27 -0600, the following appeared
>>>>> in talk.origins, posted by RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/11/2025 10:20 AM, JTEM wrote:
>>>>>>>      RonO wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously, it is you that was on another planet.  The US never had
>>>>>>>> lockdowns like China.  What happened was sparse and ineffective because
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is zero room to argue here. The lockdowns were excessive.
>>>>>>> The cost was extreme. The benefit was nil. The whole damn thing
>>>>>>> was a foreseeable & foreseen mistake, assuming they weren't
>>>>>>> intentionally trying to "Reset" the economy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What planet were you living on?  There never was a centralized plan to
>>>>>> control the infection in the US.  Actions like lockdowns were sporadic
>>>>>> and varied from state to state, and were pretty minimal when they were
>>>>>> implemented.  Arkansas tried, but neighboring states like Oklahoma
>>>>>> decided not to do it, so nothing much changed in Arkansas due to
>>>>>> boardering states with larger populations not doing much at all.
>>>>>> Testing and contact tracing were never really implemented population
>>>>>> wide, and states were pretty much on their own in terms of trying to get
>>>>>> their people tested.  Companies like mine had to implement their own
>>>>>> contact tracing and testing program months after it should have been
>>>>>> started after commercial testing became available.  Just recall how long
>>>>>> it was before the Biden administration gave everyone free Covid tests.
>>>>>> nearly a million people (probably more just were not counted) had died
>>>>>> by then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> China tested whole city populations (10s of millions in each group),
>>>>>> isolated infected, and cleared Covid from their country early in the
>>>>>> pandemic, but the virus eventually came back (my guess is that some of
>>>>>> it came in with frozen food processed in other countries).  No one else
>>>>>> did that, and the whole world, including China, is still suffering
>>>>>> because of that failure.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Just FYI, there were lockdowns in multiple jurisdictions.
>>>>> Just because they weren't mandated nationally (which would
>>>>> be illegal without a Federal emergency declaration) it
>>>>> doesn't mean they didn't exist.
>>>>
>>>> They existed, but not in any form that would be effective.
>>>>
>>> I said nothing about effectiveness, only that they existed.
>>>>
>>>>    If your
>>>> neighbors were not doing it, it failed, and as you point out they were
>>>> also ineffective because there was no testing and isolation program like
>>>> they had in China, and if everyone wasn't doing it it was a waste of
>>>> time.  The US never bothered to identify all the infected.  Where in the
>>>> US were they excessive?  States like Texas and Oklahoma opted to do
>>>> pretty much nothing.
>>>>
>>> California, for one. Of course, the restrictions didn't
>>> apply to the higher officials such as Newsom, who, from the
>>> video evidence (mostly surreptitious or assumed to be
>>> private), continued to operate pretty much as usual.
>>
>> California efforts were a joke.  I've seen YouTube videos demonstrating
>> that nothing really was ever implemented in any effective manner, and
>> pretty much none of the neighboring states did much.  They could
>> implement social distancing and outdoor dining that a lot of other
>> states could not do very well due to outdoor temperatures, but you can
>> likely find videos of customer limits in bars being ignored and such.
>> It wasn't much of any type of lock down for any significant period of
>> time.  They did set up on line education systems, and a lot of kids were
>> taught at home by their usual teachers.  They did things, but
>> enforcement was problematic, and likely what they did was never
>> considered to be any type of excessive burden.
>>
> So we agree: Lockdowns were implemented, but they were
> ineffective even though they caused significant personal and
> economic problems for large numbers of people.

They were never implemented in any effective manner, nor in any way that 
was a significant burden to anyone in the US.  The contention that was 
being rebutted was that lockdowns were excessive and a burden to the 
population.  That never happened in the US.

Ron Okimoto
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> China was initially effective using lockdowns.  They forced whole cities
>>>> to stay home and wait to be tested, and they were able to test millions
>>>> in just a couple weeks.  They eradicated the infection in China for a
>>>> period of time.  When the virus was reintroduced, they began to have
>>>> compliance issues because it was repeatedly reintroduced, and the
>>>> strategy failed.  My guess is that they needed to irradiate all the
>>>> imports as well as implement their quarantine in order to keep the virus
>>> >from coming back because the rest of the world failed to control the 
>>>> virus.  That never happened in the US.  Nothing even close happened in
>>>> the US.
>>>>
>>>> Ron Okimoto
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The lockdowns were indeed excessive in some venues (and
>>>>> essentially ineffective; see the Swedish data for contrast)
>>>>> and the costs were indeed extreme, in both personal and
>>>>> economic terms.
>>>>>>