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From: -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
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Subject: Re: gulf of america
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:15:59 -0500
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On 2/15/25 19:53, Alan wrote:
> On 2025-02-15 16:46, sticks wrote:
>> On 2/15/2025 5:53 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2025-02-15 14:36, sticks wrote:
>>>> On 2/15/2025 4:07 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 15.02.25 22:03, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-02-15 18:40:10 +0000, sticks said:
>>>>>>> On 2/15/2025 12:27 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At least we know now what we have to do. The Americans are the most
>>>>>>>> unreliable idiots. Thank god we do not owe them anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cool, we'll keep our money at home then.  Fight your own wars in the
>>>>>>> future too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> America sticking their noses into other countries' business *causes*
>>>>>> half the wars or makes them much worse ... Vietnam, Korea, 
>>>>>> Afganistan,
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Americans love to make war. 
>>>>
>>>> Not Americans, some of the American politicians.  Just like plenty 
>>>> of them overseas.
>>>>
>>>>> When they recognise they will lose they
>>>>> disappear leaving a mess behind.
>>>>
>>>> We now won't fight any wars unless we are allowed to win.  Until the 
>>>> libs get back in power at least.
>>>>
>>>>> Lately Iraq and Afghanistan. But it all
>>>>> started in Vietnam. They never won a war and rebuilt a country anymore
>>>>> in the last 70 years. Quite destructive.
>>>>
>>>> OK fine.  Get all your EU pals to fund NATO at least 2% and you take 
>>>> care of it from here.  From now on, if we get attacked in any way, I 
>>>> think you can expect to see total destruction of that enemy.  And we 
>>>> ain't rebuilding shit. 
>>>
>>> Idiot.
>>>
>>> NATO isn't "funded" in the sense you think you understand.
>>>
>>> The 2% you're referring to is a commitment for each member to spend 
>>> 2% of their GDP on defence.
>>
>> You're the fucking idiot.  The point is the European countries have 
>> had to be pushed to up their defence budgets.  Time has come for you 
>> all in Europe to quit hating each other and take care of yourselves. 
>
> Do you know what the actual figures are?
> 
> Do you know if they're actually important?
> 
> <https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/2024/04/09/there-is-more-to-nato- 
> burden-sharing-than-the-2-spending-dogma/>

The actual directly funded 'NATO budget' is less than $5B/year:

<https://www.nato.int/cps/uk/natohq/topics_67655.htm>

Now regarding the 2% of GDP, that was a ten year goal that was agreed to 
back in 2014 ... and yes, 2014 means it was an Obama accomplishment.

The ten year plan for the ramp-up means that no country was previously 
delinquent in meeting their 2% goal until 2025. Yes, this means that all 
of the ranting that Trump did was trying to criticize someone for not 
meeting a goal **in advanced of its deadline**

To use an analogy, did "sticks" file their income taxes by January 31st?
Well gosh, why not?
Because pointing out that they're not due until 4/15 isn't an excuse.


-hh