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From: Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: Cracking Speech by JDV!
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2025 21:31:58 +0100
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On 2/17/25 16:45, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
> 
>> On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
>>>>>>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
>>>>>>>>> home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in
>>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine.  All
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever.  It is the
>>>>>>>>> nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
>>>>>>>>> of govern.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the
>>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against
>>>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is probably a good thing.  Unless you are Putin.  It's pretty clear
>>>>>>>>> that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
>>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist?  Or, *could* exist if
>>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
>>>>>>> now.  So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
>>>>>> about that on the UK news.  Two were in Moldavia, close to the border,
>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
>>>>>> Romania.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up
>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in
>>>>> the first place.
>>>>
>>>> The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours
>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
>>>>
>>>> The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
>>>
>>> ...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
>>> quickly enough.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Which would have triggered another world war.
>>
>> I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
>> trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
>> if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
>> of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
>> Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
>>
>> It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
>> become a reality.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
> 
> "The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet,
> freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
> to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
> 
> Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
> why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
> 

The order is important. Becoming a modern country comes before
becoming a member of NATO. (I still have doubts about Turkey.)

I'm convinced that Putin also wants a modern, economically
successful country, but above that, he wants to conserve its
sovereignty. Getting hemmed in by its traditional long-time
adversaries makes him understandably nervous.

The US makes *me* nervous. It's far too meddlesome and has a
track record of foul play.

Jeroen Belleman