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From: MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: To sum up
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 14:42:06 +1100
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On 20/02/2025 8:24 pm, Martin Harran wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 09:52:12 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 19/02/2025 3:59 am, Martin Harran wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>>
>>> Why do you feel the need to hide your religious beliefs; why not just
>>> come out and talk openly about God? That seems to me a lack of
>>> confidence in your religious beliefs or at least your ability to
>>> convince other people.
>>
>> But I have and do. I've quoted the Bible, I've given a (speculative)
>> outline of how God might have created, etc. Happy to be transparent
>> about my personal belief.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 09:52:12 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 19/02/2025 3:59 am, Martin Harran wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>>
>>> Why do you feel the need to hide your religious beliefs; why not just
>>> come out and talk openly about God? That seems to me a lack of
>>> confidence in your religious beliefs or at least your ability to
>>> convince other people.
>>
>> But I have and do. I've quoted the Bible, I've given a (speculative)
>> outline of how God might have created, etc. Happy to be transparent
>> about my personal belief.
> 
> Is this what you are referring to, from the "Ool - out at first base?"
> thread ?
> 
> ==========================================
> 
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 14:10:27 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>
>> God is eternally preexisting, nonmaterial, above and beyond time,
>> matter, energy, but creating and controlling these.
>>
>> God conceived of all created things before they came into being.
>>
>> God spoke and there was...spacetime, matter, energy.
>>
>> God created the initial low entropy state of the universe.
>>
>> God designed physics, the periodic table, etc, as building blocks
>> capable of being fashioned into all created things.
>>
>> God designed all living things and spoke them into being, either
>> directly, or indirectly through innate capacity for change and adaptation.
>>
>> Etc.
> 
> ===========================================
> 
> That is absolutely fair as a Faith statement but "God designed"  and
> God "spoke" things into existence tells us nothing about *how* God
> might have created. It doesn't, for example, shed any light at all on
> my question above which seemed to unsettle you so much, the one about
> how you deal with other species sharing the structure of the human
> brain and, in some ways, being even more complex.
> 

"*how* God might have created"?

Informed speculation could draw on the observed characteristics of 
living things, e.g. a rich diversity of type, behaviour, size, habitat, 
morphology, appearance, adaptability, diet, nature, intelligence, etc.

What might this tell us about their designer?

It seems to suggest incredible creativity - an enjoyment of creation and 
pushing designs within the constraints of the material world.

It suggests an approach of exploring variations on a theme - the reuse 
of designs, basic body plans etc.

What is evident is technical capability - precision engineering, radical 
engineering, from DNA to dinosaurs; edge cases such as echo-location, 
electric defenses, flight, metamorphosis, marine living, human abilities 
and consciousness.

The inbuilt capacity for adaptation suggests an expectation of creation 
developing ("multiplying and filling the earth"), and therefore with 
deep analysis and foresight to design in capacity to change and adapt, 
and create a richness of diversity and gradations of form and function.

Abundance is also apparent, the spectacle and delight of thriving 
populations (Genesis uses the word "teem").

 From Genesis 1:27: "So God created mankind in his own image, in the 
image of God he created them; male and female he created them." Humans 
are part of the created order, but at the same time different in 
fundamental ways. Being made in God's image means the imparting of a 
meaningful capacity for relationship and moral accountability with their 
creator. And it results in an innate ability to enjoy and comprehend 
creation; to explore it, master it, and act as secondary creators. And, 
in rebellion against God, an ability and freedom harm creation and each 
other.

As I've said elsewhere, my personal view is microevolution but not 
macroevolution. Other Christians would also allow macroevolution. And 
you know my views on OOL.

That's the living world. As for creation of space and time, matter and 
energy--they're beyond the reach of my limited speculation. But again, 
the scale and grandeur of the universe speaks of the power and glory of 
its creator.