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From: Jos Boersema <Josjoha@market.socialism.nl>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Being ashamed of following Rabbinical Judaism & Adam's shame ?
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 11:06:34 -0000 (UTC)
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title: The Ultimate PROOF For Moshiach!
source: @MoshiachMinute
link: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7fEc-A5hSac

  Reply ...

Are you ashamed of Rabbinical Judaism, ashamed of believing in Rambam
? This may be a key for you who are like that to even survive. The
argument goes like this (although I heard yesterday from a Turk that
people in the middle east have no rationality, you are only emotional
and are not able to understand anything beyond either blind fielty
to something, or absolute hostility, and that this is one of the big
problems of the Middle East, and so me making an argument may be as
useless as I have learned that it after trying so many times ...):

Adam & Eve _stole_ the 'soft fruit', they became criminal and refused to
learn their discipline lesson. I think the idea is beautiful and realistic
and also realistic. Peoples fall into crime and violence. Nothing special
about that tree, just a lesson with a random tree. Learn respect, become
civilized. They became _ashamed_ afterwards though, and that could
mean there was hope. Perhaps the Creator saw it, and therefore went so
easy on them, and put them in a state in-between real life and being
extinct. Sadly for you in the Middle East, all this talk has no meaning,
because you have no rationality, right ? You cannot comprehend that there
is logic here. For you this is just some random talk, which can only
have meaning if there you _idolize_ the source first, and then you will
radically believe it and fawn to it and celebrate it and worship it. Okay,
I'm pushing your buttons now, but I have to say that this is how at this
point I perceive you as a people: dishonest and mindless (sorry). The
arguments are so simple, yet you continue with the lies of Rambam and
Hillel. To me, that is like you have a death wish, but to you, it is
just the idols you worship with every fibre of your being, while rational
arguments are a dimension you have no relation to whatsoever. You don't
want to think, you want to feel, you want to revel in your emotions and
then you will fawn before your King and that's your whole existence. To
figure something out by thinking, impossible for you. I realize this
comment is rambling to a degree, so let's get back to the topic.

The idea is that Adam & Eve where not destroyed for becoming criminals,
because of their _shame._ They apparently where not so ashamed that they
changed their behavior, so they where still thieves, which also becomes
lying and violence, but thieving is at the essence of it. Criminals can
also be said to essentially be thieves, and the murdering is ultimately
part of the thieving (it sometimes helps them do their thieving).

Rabbinical Judaism with Hillel and Rambam is also thieving, because you
have overthrown the Jubilee in Rambam Shemita 10:8, and this implies
you are stealing land from people it belongs to (nothing to do with
Palestine, I mean Jew versus Jew). Hillel also promoted theft with his
prozbul. That loan belonged to the poor, that money belongs to Hashem
after the 7th year. It says so in the Torah (as you probably know). 7th
year debt nullification. To overturn this, is to become a thieve. Heter
iska can also be a form of stealing. It doesn't matter if you deny all
this, which you probably will if you are fundamentally inable to have
any relation to a logical reasonable argument, even though when Hillel or
Rambam set up their shallow logic around their fake laws, you do follow
that. Apparently you do not follow that because you agree with the logic,
but rather because you worship them as your idols, while the logic or
illogic of it _completely escapes you_ since people in the Middle East
are irrational and only emotional (sorry to push your buttons again,
but this is what you are doing).

This then leads to the following point: if Adam & Eve only survived
because of their shame after thieving, and Rabbinical Judaism is thieving
(as shown), then you can perhaps also only survive if you are ashamed
of Rabbinical Judaism. Are you ashamed of it ? Are you ashamed of how
your ruined the Torah, where Moshe Rabbeinu essentially seems to have
put Israel back in Paradise, by teaching them _not to steal_ ? Perhaps
that is going to be the key to the Redemption at some point: the shame
of having followed Hillel and Rambam, ashamed of the thieving, but to
such an extend you will rebuild paradise in Eretz Yisroel, meaning to
build a Nation who rejects stealing, and learns this lesson which Adam &
Eve failed to learn.

You notice how close it all is to each other: _garden_ of Eden ? Tree with
fruit ? The Jubilee about land, upon which in many cases are fruit trees
? The additional laws regarding fruit trees (not to eat after planting
for 3 years) ? I think these kinds of things are what the Rabbis are
ignoring: how real and physical it all is, how down to earth it all
is, absolutely literally: earth, land, borders, rights to use, fruit,
trees, etc. Things. Then you guys goof off into this world of 'shells'
with your Kabbalah, and you talk about what you call 'spiritual'. It's
like Greeks talking about their mythology in another world.

I figure there is a lot to be ashamed about with Rabbinical Judaism,
considering it has overthrown the Torah and ruined Israel and perhaps
the world with its Hillel and Rambam (overthrow of the Torah economy,
incl. the rest day which you broke in two). This shame may become so
much deeper, after the next round of punishment, if you ever came to
realize the guilt of Rabbinical Judaism in it all. You are also guilty
of Sun disk idolatry, by the way (Lamp of Helena).

Have a _guten Shabbos._ If this Turk was right, and the Middle East is
_fundamentally irrational_ then I don't see the hope. I don't see how
you can get past your confusion, or will be able to build a sensible
Nation. Maybe this is even what this 'moshiach' deal is about, because if
you are _that irrational_ then only this kind of a mechanism can still
get through to you. Personally however, I would think: if that's what
you need to get serious about what is true and what isn't, it is already
lost one way or the other. If you cannot see the _prozbul_ is phony,
I would think all is lost, one way or the other.

  * End reply.

Continuing on Usenet. I guess it is natural for the Rabbis to talk about
the Temple part, because these parts of the ruling class (Rabbis in this
case)are so much about being at the center of the Empire where the money
is plentiful. They talk about temples and gods, because that's where
they want to be. They don't talk so much about this 'temple' having the
job of the Supreme court so much, or that at times it may be difficult
for those Judges to do a good job, or what those laws should then be
which are to be enforced throughout the land, and what that is going to
mean for the people who live everywhere (not near / at this temple).

It's all about Temples, just like Egypt was all about temples. Temples
(and other grandiose architecture) as a goal in itself or a tool to
inspire awe and power. Similar with the western idol system, which is
also about their churches and then their church kings have palaces, and
their boss in Rome lives in a palace compound (forbidden city). Doesn't
the Vatican know about the right to land in the law of Moshe Rabbeinu ?
When ever did the Catholics establish and enforce the right to land for
all (to my knowledge, they never did it, even if there is sometimes some
apparently empty talk about topics like this).

Technically the video is correct of course: the Redemption of Israel
will be centered in Yerushalayim, and on the so-called Temple Mount.
That is at least what the prophets have said. Perhaps these things can
then finally happen after the 3rd World War and the next round of
punishment for the Jewish people. Perhaps they will eventually want to
give thinking a chance, get some control over their overpowering
emotions, and learn to become ashamed of the thieving and betrayal which
has become Rabbinical Judaism and its overthrow of the rights of the
people. Perhaps the catastrophe will be so big, that all their emotions
turn into darkness, and their idolatry also becomes less because if the
situation they might be in is what all their efforts for Rabbis (who
often promised the opposite right now) got them, then maybe they have
been worshiping the wrong idols.

To go from worshiping idols like Hillel and Rambam with their thieving
lies, to be ashamed for Rabbinical Judaism (with all its proud
Synagogues and flashy made books), it seems to be a big and difficult
step for this lost people. The one thing they held on to, turns out to
be that which has poisoned them to the extend they can never be Redeemed
until they go against it.

The Rabbis have no reason to go against Hillel or Rambam, because it
brings in the money for now, they have standing and money thanks to
this. If you wait on them to change, you are waiting for people to
change for whom it is the most difficult. They will have to go against
their teaching and certification, the social pressure they are likely to
receive especially because other Rabbis know that the Rabbis who return
to the Torah are threatening them with that in their positions and
following and so they will more quickly act against them with anger and
propaganda, and so on.

Meanwhile, another day went past, another day wasted. The Turk probably
is completely right. He was a good guy it seems, who works for some kind
of social organization which builds schools. As Moshe Rabbeinu /
Prophets already said, Israel is a hard necked and idolatrous
people. Emotions of fielty are strong, logic and understanding is low
to non existing.

I'm from the Netherlands, which is a bit more rational than the southers
countries it seems, while the Scandinavian more northern countries are
a lot more rational and less emotional. That doesn't mean one thing is
good and the other bad, but it does seem to be how emotional / rational
shifts. I wonder if the cause it the needs for survival are different
and to a degree harder if you have to deal with a hard winter ? The heat
makes thinking harder (it does for me I think heh).

So, is it a problem for you in the Middle East, to admit that something
is true and right, even if you don't like the person saying it for
some reason ? Do you feel it is a betrayal of some idol you worship, to
not follow them in every possible way and ignore everyone else completey ?
If so, I don't see how you can establish a civil society, where you may
have to listen to the grievances of people you may not like, or learn
things you don't feel learning, or admit the person you are arguing
against has some things fair and correct so that maybe you should tone
down your viewpoint and demands a little bit, to reach a common
agreement.

Humanity in general may just be a failure in terms of farming (see other
places of why this is an important issue). Humanity does not want to be
technological, because they don't want to change enough to deal with it
succesfully. Humanity may then downgrade itself to something like the
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