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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Rich <rich@example.invalid> Newsgroups: comp.misc Subject: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 05:19:26 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 55 Message-ID: <vpgvgu$turg$1@dont-email.me> References: <67b21894$14$17$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <RiKsP.173075$l629.51307@fx10.iad> <ae0c61cc-9814-04ab-75d4-f8d4cacdc9cd@example.net> <67b4fc88@news.ausics.net> <eli$2502181846@qaz.wtf> <67b659f8@news.ausics.net> <bf5148ef-af79-b5e5-0c95-3c3da83cbd67@example.net> <87mseggwo1.fsf@example.com> <87frk8gwji.fsf@example.com> <05f9e6d7-ae71-d73e-9244-2638790780ef@example.net> <87tt8odsb7.fsf@example.com> <1b411147-a833-8c73-2d85-e5c749fc23b9@example.net> <87ikp03y4r.fsf@example.com> Injection-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 06:19:28 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1387d1a4a928bf086a17ed1f50856dfd"; logging-data="981872"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19/5upQ8ImmZkxo6aVAHGTL" User-Agent: tin/2.6.1-20211226 ("Convalmore") (Linux/5.15.139 (x86_64)) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Twy5qjTlqCgdeNdx2K7sS632XzY= Bytes: 4104 Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >> On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> >>>> This is the truth. I'm a contrarian kind of guy, so when the world >>>> goes git, I go fossil. ;) Jokes aside, I like the concept of one >>>> binary and how it works for my own personal use case. >>> >>> I went fossil when I had to teach a class. I thought git was more >>> complicated than fossil. But it turns out that fossil was seen as >>> crazily complicated by nearly all students (anyway). I think fossil is >>> just fine, though I confess I prefer the file system over a database. >> >> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy >> complicated compared with git? > > Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated > fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether. > Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same > credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester. > > I don't have much information. The command line seemed an awful > experience to them. I suspect that they thought that the command line > was archaic means of system interface and that perhaps it was just a > teacher idiosyncrasy. For some (most? all?) they likely had only ever used a "touch/feely" interface (i.e., phone) and so, yes, they were very ill equiped to even comprehend a command line, much less be productive in one. > This experience gave me the following feeling---they ask for real-world, > pratical experience, but they're not up to an introduction to the tools > used in the real-world. They likely have never been out of their smartphone protected bubble. >> I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, >> regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple >> commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing >> rebasing and huge software projects). > > I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users > that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept. I watched > them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up > their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on > the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols. Which is (almost) the same they would do using a GUI or their phone. Wherever the file manager defaults, they then meticiously "step" their way over to where they want to be. The concept of saving a 'bookmark' (of sorts) to "go directly there" is likely foreign to them. In fact, they sound like the types who open the google search page, then type a URL into the google search box, to go to that URL.