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From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: Cracking Speech by JDV!
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:56:00 +1100
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On 25/02/2025 7:03 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 21:31:58 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
> 
>> On 2/17/25 16:45, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
>>>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
>>>>>>>>>> <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
>>>>>>>>>>> home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in
>>>>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine.  All
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever.  It is the
>>>>>>>>>>> nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
>>>>>>>>>>> of govern.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the
>>>>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against
>>>>>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is probably a good thing.  Unless you are Putin.  It's pretty clear
>>>>>>>>>>> that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
>>>>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist?  Or, *could* exist if
>>>>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
>>>>>>>>> now.  So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
>>>>>>>> about that on the UK news.  Two were in Moldavia, close to the border,
>>>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
>>>>>>>> Romania.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up
>>>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in
>>>>>>> the first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours
>>>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
>>>>> quickly enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which would have triggered another world war.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
>>>> trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
>>>> if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
>>>> of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
>>>> Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
>>>>
>>>> It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
>>>> become a reality.
>>>>
>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>
>>> "The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet,
>>> freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
>>> to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
>>>
>>> Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
>>> why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
>>>
>>
>> The order is important. Becoming a modern country comes before
>> becoming a member of NATO. (I still have doubts about Turkey.)
>>
>> I'm convinced that Putin also wants a modern, economically
>> successful country, but above that, he wants to conserve its
>> sovereignty. Getting hemmed in by its traditional long-time
>> adversaries makes him understandably nervous.
>>
>> The US makes *me* nervous. It's far too meddlesome and has a
>> track record of foul play.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
> 
> European wars don't make me nervous. They have been so routine for so
> many millenia that they are boring.

Not for the participants. And war has changed a lot over the millenia.

> Too bad about the genocides. Lots of innocents have died.

Genocide is a pretty recent phenomena. In most wars you kill your 
enemies, rather than members of some specific human group. If a civilian 
population is feeding your enemies you tend to kill them too, but that 
isn't genocide - just strategy.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney