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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Anyone with sufficient knowledge of C knows that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 17:28:58 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 70 Message-ID: <vpqsfq$3agh2$4@dont-email.me> References: <vo6420$3mpmf$1@dont-email.me> <vouu57$12hqt$3@dont-email.me> <vp1jkg$1kstl$1@dont-email.me> <vp1qp1$1m05h$2@dont-email.me> <vp46l6$26r1n$1@dont-email.me> <vp5t55$2gt2s$1@dont-email.me> <vp6pmb$2opvi$1@dont-email.me> <vp8700$30tdq$1@dont-email.me> <vp9ct8$3af6t$1@dont-email.me> <vpav34$3jct4$1@dont-email.me> <vpc3u9$3skb7$1@dont-email.me> <vpcsvk$irt$2@dont-email.me> <vpev2e$fgop$1@dont-email.me> <vpfmpp$j7qb$6@dont-email.me> <vphbnb$10gus$1@dont-email.me> <vpivp4$1fvqe$6@dont-email.me> <vpklrk$21jn9$1@dont-email.me> <vplbnp$25vp2$5@dont-email.me> <b122ed1dc2c636321627d4dfc7936e463f920690@i2pn2.org> <vpltcn$28j3a$6@dont-email.me> <a8b150912bc326cd01c9e9ee89762d12b9fc571e@i2pn2.org> <vpm6hq$2dvrs$4@dont-email.me> <vpmo1m$2g3p0$3@dont-email.me> <vpn9m5$2jkdj$5@dont-email.me> <f556d553eddd6abf8673b902a2e0c51ded0e6423@i2pn2.org> <vporib$2vaf3$8@dont-email.me> <vppch2$323f6$3@dont-email.me> <vpqh0p$38ma4$1@dont-email.me> <b91d3af00fa332dd51ca2ac3932c2a721d2a4032@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 00:28:59 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="de9c75e0e594a6c6f2c98c0fd19b8497"; logging-data="3490338"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/3w/K8gFO8sHbI14SW42UP" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:+AiWOZy4kBd0gvlEc4N1KI6zFgo= In-Reply-To: <b91d3af00fa332dd51ca2ac3932c2a721d2a4032@i2pn2.org> Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250227-10, 2/27/2025), Outbound message Bytes: 5098 On 2/27/2025 2:45 PM, joes wrote: > Am Thu, 27 Feb 2025 14:13:13 -0600 schrieb olcott: >> On 2/27/2025 3:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>> Op 27.feb.2025 om 06:00 schreef olcott: >>>> On 2/26/2025 5:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 2/26/25 9:49 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 2/26/2025 3:48 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>> Op 26.feb.2025 om 05:50 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>> On 2/25/2025 10:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> You already know that you are stupidly wrong about the emulation >>>>>>>> being incorrect or you would have provided the correct emulation >>>>>>>> sequence long ago. > >>>>>>>> What are the first 15 lines of DD correctly emulated by HHH? >>>>>>> The error in the simulation occurs already at the 5th instruction, >>>>>>> the 'call 000015c3'. Instead of simulating this instruction, >>>>>> You dodged the actual question. >>>>>> What are the correct first 15 lines of DD emulated by HHH. >>>>> And you are missing the point that HHH can not correctly emulate 15 >>>>> line of this DD, as it is missing information and thus the task is >>>>> improperly defined. >>>> If we assume that HHH emulates the above machine code then there is >>>> NO MORE relevant information needed and we know that machine address >>>> 0000213c of DD is followed by machine address 00002133 of DD. > No. Relevant information includes the code at address 0x213c and > everything it points to. > _DD() [00002133] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping [00002134] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping [00002136] 51 push ecx ; make space for local [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD) [00002141] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002144] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax [00002147] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 [0000214b] 7402 jz 0000214f [0000214d] ebfe jmp 0000214d [0000214f] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04] [00002152] 8be5 mov esp,ebp [00002154] 5d pop ebp [00002155] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155] THE ONLY FREAKING THING THAT NEED BE KNOWN ABOUT THE CODE AT THAT ADDRESS (TO DETERMINE THE SEQUENCE OF MACHINE INSTRUCTIONS OF DD) IS THAT IT EMULATES THE MACHINE INSTRUCTIONS OF DD. From this base assumption we know that the first five instructions of DD are repeated three times when the first 15 instructions of DD are emulated. You won't know thus if you have no idea what the term "emulate" means. >>> If assuming that following the call would lead to infinite recursion >>> (which is not true, because DD has been proven to halt), >> If it was true that the above instance of DD reaches its "ret" >> instruction then you could show how it does this. > Easy. It calls a program that returns *by definition* . > -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer