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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: House arrest after killing cyclist in hit and run.
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2025 08:14:50 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 3/1/2025 3:39 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Mar 2025 04:01:58 -0500, Catrike Ryder
> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 22:05:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/28/2025 8:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/28/2025 5:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/28/2025 3:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my view, a person who kills someone with their car should never,
>>>>>>> ever be allowed to drive again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>> First, let's acknowledge that rule will never be implemented in the
>>>>> U.S. But if it were, driver caution would increase many times over.
>>>>>
>>>>> After the first few "dumbshit walks in front of car" episodes actually
>>>>> resulted in "no more driving" and were publicized, motorists might
>>>>> begin slowing to non-fatal speeds when pedestrians (or bicyclists) are
>>>>> within walk-in- front range.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I've said here before, if an overhead crane operator killed someone
>>>>> in a factory, I think they'd never be allowed to operate the crane
>>>>> again, no matter what their excuse.
>>>>>
>>>>> Humans have given up far more than we should have to motordom. Streets
>>>>> and roads were once the domain of pedestrians, of kids playing, of
>>>>> people interacting. Turning them entirely over to motorists was a
>>>>> deliberate campaign goal of the car manufacturers.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://marker.medium.com/the-invention-of-jaywalking- afd48f994c05
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I (naively?) assumed you meant 'by negligence or malice' and I was happy
>>>> to agree with that.
>>>>
>>>> But I can't agree with you here.  Extend that argument and we'll charge
>>>> train operators with murder when jerkoffs drive around the gate.  Or
>>>> auto drivers who hit red light running cyclists for that matter.
>>>
>>> Given the legal system of the United States, I'd assume that if such a
>>> law were implemented, there would be gaggles of lawyers rushing to any
>>> accused motorist to defend his right to run down anyone who impeded his
>>> speed.
>>>
>>> So think of my position as an initial step in negotiations. Let it apply
>>> in, say, residential areas, where kids should be able to play in
>>> streets. Or in pedestrian heavy business districts.
>>>
>>> But as we all know, the present situation is closest to "I didn't see
>>> him!" or "He came out of nowhere!" followed by at most a slap on the
>>> wrist. And any imperfection in the pedestrian's behavior is a coupon for
>>> no motorist penalty at all.
>>>
>>> Locally, about six months ago we had a young, well loved, well respected
>>> music teacher, church organist killed by a car when walking across a
>>> street. About a week ago, another young man was killed crossing the
>>> plaza-infested five lane at 6 AM. Details on the first are sketchy to me
>>> - it sounds like he was in a legal crosswalk - but cops said the latter
>>> was "not crossing in a designated crosswalk" so the motorist is off
>>> completely free. And in a different city, a young woman I know well was
>>> knocked to the ground and injured while crossing in a crosswalk with a
>>> green "walk" signal.
>>>
>>> (BTW, Ohio law has a virtual crosswalk at any intersection, whether it's
>>> marked or not. Still, expecting pedestrians to walk an extra half mile
>>> to avoid being called a "jaywalker" seems unfair to me.)
>>>
>>> I'd like a law that makes motorists think "Holy shit, there's a
>>> pedestrian. I'd better be _really_ careful."
>>
>> What a shame that you've come to hate cars and drivers so much. For
>> many, myself, for example, driving can be fun. Here's the little
>> former race car that I sometimes commuted to work in. Mostly rural
>> with little traffic but lots of twists and curves.  I made my first
>> trip to Florida in it.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_soloman/54333895269/
> 
> Why Isn't there a law that makes bicycle riders think,  "Holy shit,
> there's a motor vehicle, I'd better be really careful."

A few thousand years of human interaction (with laws, rules, 
customs, and case records) has resulted in some widely 
accepted general rules and this is one.

For example, one application of that:

https://everything2.com/title/Law+of+Gross+Tonnage

"The heavier vessel always has the right-of-way. There is no 
explicit directive in maritime regulations or law for the 
the Law of Gross Tonnage other than it is common sense that 
giving way and being alive is usually better than forcing 
one's right-of-way and being dead. "

For example:

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971