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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DD emulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally --- x86 code Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2025 17:47:30 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 64 Message-ID: <vq06al$eljf$1@dont-email.me> References: <vptlfu$3st19$9@dont-email.me> <vpug3h$50td$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2025 00:47:36 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="0a4c634d78a3c572e27d924fefebd45f"; logging-data="480879"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18+GNPt7jN7qN1ys17m4+WQ" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:vThaEUj/0uhgkFRFlbqDqNK9oeU= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <vpug3h$50td$1@dont-email.me> X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250301-6, 3/1/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Bytes: 3640 On 3/1/2025 2:22 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2025-03-01 00:47:58 +0000, olcott said: > >> _DD() >> [00002133] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >> [00002134] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >> [00002136] 51 push ecx ; make space for local >> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD >> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD) >> [00002141] 83c404 add esp,+04 >> [00002144] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax >> [00002147] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >> [0000214b] 7402 jz 0000214f >> [0000214d] ebfe jmp 0000214d >> [0000214f] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04] >> [00002152] 8be5 mov esp,ebp >> [00002154] 5d pop ebp >> [00002155] c3 ret >> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155] >> >> When we hypothesize that the code at machine address >> 0000213c is an x86 emulator then we know that DD >> remains stuck in recursive emulation and cannot possibly >> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally. > > The emulator itself is stuck and cannot return normally but it doesn't > know it cannot return normally. At some point it runs out of memory > and terminates normally or abnormally. > Yes you are correct about this sub-step of two steps. >> When we add the additional complexity that HHH also >> aborts this sequence at some point then every level >> of recursive emulation immediately stops. This does >> not enable any DD to ever reach its "ret" instruction. > > When we add an additional complexity we must note that there are other > additional complexities that could be added instead. > Sure we could carefully examine every detail about the price of tea in China. When we are answering the question that seems impossible for anyone here to pay attention to even when repeated hundreds of times: Can the above DD correctly emulated by HHH possibly reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally? The answer is dead obviously "no" for everyone that is: (a) Technically competent and (b) Not deliberately deceptive. Once we get through this then people will understand that my system would eliminate AI hallucinations. Until AI has a foundation of basic facts it will always view everything as some kind of fiction. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer