Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Machine Shop
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 09:50:04 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 3/3/2025 9:38 AM, cyclintom wrote:
> On Sun Feb 23 13:05:12 2025 John B.  wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 20:04:09 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:26:05 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 13:06:13 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 19:58:29 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri Nov 8 14:03:46 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>>>>>> It doesn't exist, Tom. You can't pop a dent out a bicycle frame tube by
>>>>>>> riding the bike. Thinking you can is a sign of insanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have a slight dent in high performance steel. the tubing can revert to its natural shape under stress.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom.  The only steel that might do that is spring steel (1095, 1060,
>>>>> 1075, 1080, etc).  Bicycle frames are not made from spring steel.  If
>>>>> they were made from spring steel, they would ride like the proverbial
>>>>> wet noodle.
>>>>
>>>> Errr... 1095 is not "spring steel". At least not in the metal working
>>>> field. It is simply a high carbon steel and one common use is knife
>>>> blades and other cutting devices :-)
>>>
>>> True, but I beg to differ slightly.  Wikipedia lists 1095 as "Blue, or
>>> polished bright spring steel".  Same with McMaster-Carr catalog:
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_steel>
>>> <https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/116/3630>
>>>
>>> During the 1960's, I was working in my father's lingerie factory after
>>> school.  We couldn't afford a resident toolmaker to build the sewing
>>> machine attachments.  So, I was volunteered to do the work.  My father
>>> took home a few tools and some stock including a box of assorted coils
>>> of spring steel.  When he died in 1995(?), I inherited the tools and
>>> metal stock which included some 1095 coils and scrap.
>>>
>>> However, it seems that it's also suitable for knives.  I know a little
>>> about knife making and sharpening.  I made one knife from a kit:
>>> <https://www.knifekits.com>
>>> I do fairly well (for a beginner) at sharpening.  1095 is considered a
>>> good steel for knifemaking because of it's edge retention.  It's most
>>> suitable for survival knives.  1095 has no corrosion resistance and
>>> therefore poor edge retention in corrosive environments:
>>> <https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide#1095>
>>
>> You can make a knife out of a rock if that is all you have so lets not
>> get carried away :-)
>>
>> Like most things the material used to make a knife is largely
>> dependent on what you intend to use it for.
>> And before we get further, I spent quite a bit of my life working with
>> metals, from forging and  making knives from old files to managing a
>> machine shop where far more modern steels are used in jet engines and
>> that sort of thing
>>   
>> And yes there are steels to make different knives, and over the years
>> I've made a lot of knives ranging from my wives kitchen knives to a
>> "special" hunting knife for my Father's Christmas present, and not to
>> mention all the shop cutting tools over the years.
>>
>> To my mind a "good knife" is a knife that works well for the use that
>> you intend to use it for. My wife's (she's gone now) are still in the
>> kitchen and still work as well as they did when I made then nearly 30
>> years ago,  she complained of a store bought knife and I, foolishly,
>> made her a good carbon-steel knife and went from being "Master of the
>> House" to "kitchen knife maker" over night :-(
>>
>>> For bicycle frame use, it could probably survive a crash, but will
>>> corrode away in the first rain.  If the tubing were thin enough, it
>>> might be springy enough for self healing dents.  However, the same
>>> springiness will also provide a springy ride.
>>
>> And, no bicycle frames are not made from knife quality carbon steel
>> although it could be that when I as a lad bike frames might well have
>> been made of low carbon tubing as from memory they did bend a lot in a
>> crash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you just learn that liebermann believes that "spring steel" tubing isn't proper material for a bicycle tube which requires the tubular shape for the proper strength and not material?
> 
> And he no doubt will tell you that a file is spring steel.
> 
> I am having a hard time dealing with people who have never accomplished a thing in their lives telling people with actual experience that they don't know what they're talking about.

There are many subjects here on RBT to which I do not 
contribute as I know nothing in the area.

But deformation of steel bicycle tubing is a subject on 
which I am an actual expert.

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971