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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception
 out on its ass
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 21:01:14 +0100
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Op 03.mrt.2025 om 15:08 schreef olcott:
> On 3/3/2025 2:46 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 02.mrt.2025 om 23:28 schreef olcott:
>>> On 3/2/2025 4:15 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 02.mrt.2025 om 22:21 schreef olcott:
>>>>> int DD()
>>>>> {
>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>    return Halt_Status;
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> _DD()
>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>>>
>>>>> DD emulated by HHH according to the behavior that DD
>>>>> specifies cannot possibly reach its own "ret" instruction
>>>>> and terminate normally.
>>>>>
>>>>> This process computes the mapping from the actual input
>>>>> (not any other damn thing) finite string to the non
>>>>> terminating behavior that this finite specifies when
>>>>> it calls its own emulator in recursive emulation.
>>>>
>>>> In other words 'non terminating behavior' means that *HHH* was 
>>>> unable to reach the 'ret' instruction. 
>>>
>>> Not at all. The fact that DD calls its own emulator
>>> makes DD unable to reach its own "ret" instruction.
>>>
>>
>> Counter factual. The exact same finite string in direct execution or 
>> simulated by HHH1 shows that DD is perfectly able to reach its 'ret' 
> 
> Because neither of these cases has DD calling its own emulator.
> Ignoring how this changes the behavior of DD is stupid.
> 

Indeed, HHH is a simulator that cannot possibly simulate itself 
correctly up to the end, so it fails when it attempts to simulate DD 
that uses the same HHH. That is a problem for HHH, not of DD, because DD 
is very well able to reach its 'ret' in direct execution or other 
simulators. So, the finite string DD describes a halting program, but 
HHH is unable to simulate it properly. The behaviour of a program 
described by a finite string is completely defined by its direct 
execution. A failing simulator does not change that.