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From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Totally ignoring invalid
 rebuttals
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 22:53:14 -0500
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On 3/3/2025 10:50 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/3/2025 9:33 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 3/3/2025 10:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> int DD()
>>> {
>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>    if (Halt_Status)
>>>      HERE: goto HERE;
>>>    return Halt_Status;
>>> }
>>>
>>> _DD()
>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>
>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly
>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally.
>>>
>>> The only valid rebuttal is to show all of the steps of
>>> exactly how DD correctly emulated by HHH reaches its
>>> own "ret" instruction.
>>>
>>
>> Suppose we accept that HHH is able to correctly determine that 
>> replacing the code of HHH with an unconditional simulator and running 
>> HHH(DD) will not halt.
>>
>> Then what?
> 
> That is not a valid rebuttal and your paraphrase of
> these words is inaccurate:
> 
> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach
> its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally.
> 
> 

In other words, if the code of HHH is replaced with an unconditional 
emulator, HHH(DD) will not halt.  You agreed that this characterization 
is correct:

On 2/22/2025 1:02 PM, olcott wrote:
 > On 2/22/2025 11:10 AM, dbush wrote:
 >> On 2/22/2025 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>> The first point is DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot
 >>> possibly terminate normally by reaching its own "return"
 >>> instruction.
 >>
 >> In other words, if the code of HHH is replaced with an unconditional 
simulator then it can be shown that DD is non-halting and therefore 
HHH(DD)==0 is correct.
 >>
 >
 > Wow finally someone that totally gets it.

So suppose we assume that is correct.  Then what?