Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Jos Boersema <Josjoha@market.socialism.nl>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jewish law (Torah) is about reality, not make belief.
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 15:07:11 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <vq74uv$1tq9g$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 16:07:11 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="b12ed3f66ca96b5e9811ed8a6baa065a";
	logging-data="2025776"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/bzo5Ip4l2vH3QJodzjBh1"
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:oLG5WnoGrSsiSZhDmxuxySf+SUU=
Bytes: 6310

Someone responded to some recent comment with that people need a
"personal relationship with g/God". What is that always about with so
many people, this new fad. Was this always already existing ? I think
the Americans invented this ?

Personally: I don't get it (even though 'the autists' even seem to be
talking about it in a positive way), and I don't even want to get it
(sorry).

   Reply ...

Hello. Why do you respond like this, with a very personalized and
potentially complete fantasy "relationship with g/God", when it is
explicit and precise what the Jewish God wants from his people, such
as to perform the right to land for all (Jubilee), to nullify the loans
in the 7th year, and so on. Where does the Tanach say anything about a
"personal relationship with g/God" ? (small caps for idols, caps for
the Creator of everything)

The only mention I know about a personal relationship, is for Moshe
Rabbeinu himself, and nobody else. Only prophets are talking or listening
to this God, which needs to be further verified by their behavior,
their support for the Torah, and the truth of their predictions (not
"tomorrow the sun comes up" but "The Pharao will put his throne on
this rock"). Where do we know this "personal relationship with god"
from ? Idolatrous cults all around and everywhere.

The God of Israel said quite specific when and how Israel is supposed
to show their fielty, but that is just one aspect of that law. Maybe
you all - who are of this "personal relationship with God" mindset -
should keep in mind that even Moshe Rabbeinu couldn't "see God" (as he
would die, if I understand it). Even he would die.

This is the relationship you can have with this God of Israel: keep to
his laws, be a good person, be honest and not a scammer (unless in war
of course, but that's not what we are now talking about). You realize
that if you read the Tanach, that someone breaking the Shabbos has the
death penalty. How can anyone claim to have a "personal relationship with
the God of Israel", with all the dangers of imagination and going crazy
around it anyway, and then they don't even do their job according to the
Torah (supporting Hillel and Rambam rather than the law of the Torah),
and we know that even someone who "merely" broke the Shabbos already
has the death penalty.

It doesn't sound like it to me that this God is going to be very
friendly with people who put his Torah in the toilet (such as Hillel
and Rambam).  You all, probably both individually and as a group, are
under multiple death sentences if you where to be judged under this law
(if you are Jewish of course), but then you think you have a "personal
relationship" with this God ? Is this God talking to you in your mind,
do you hear voices ? This is not how it works with the God of Israel. The
God of Israel is in complete control of reality, unlike figments of the
imagination. If the God of Israel wants to say something and be heard,
there is no limit in the ways this can be done. Even the Tanach talks
about people imagining to themselves that they talked to God, when God
didn't talk to them, or that they had dreams, but those dreams mean
nothing. It's a known thing, even in the Torah.

But ... it looks like you are not Jewish, because Jewish people don't
usually seem to use words like "faith" or "religion" or this relationship
thing. It sounds like some variety of American idolatry to the well
known western idol, Jeebus the bastard (see Ceasar's Messiah on what
that was really about, IMHO). If so, then you don't necessarily have
to keep the entire Torah, but even for you it is absolutely critical to
understand the right to land, or your people will likely have no future,
and you refused to learn your lesson over the last thousands of years
(how to do farming correctly, it is that basic IMHO).

I am talking about land ownership, a certain amount of hectares of land,
real land. Not fairy pie in the sky "personal relationship with God". I
talk about real money, money in your wallet. You give it to someone in
need. Laws are attached to this activity. 7th year comes, you may not
even ask for it back at all, I even believe it must be prohibited and
punished if the borrower _wants_ to give the money back after the 7th
year. It is not allowed ! Such a negative practice may not spread. He
must lend it instead to someone in need, and this way the goodness and
love should spread all around the people.

Reality. Not dream world fantasy. Not "worship this idol and pretend
the idol will fix things". Deal with reality hands on and get it right,
that is what it is about. Food for the children, morality for everyone,
freedom to live a decent life, etc. Reality reality reality. Actions
actions actions. Not dream world "worship" "religion" and (fake) priests
casting their spells. Reality: laws regulations actions, results. Physical
real results. People who are free, not slaves. Nation at peace, not
war. Husband and bride happy, house safe, food on the table, a way to
earn a living and do something. Not temples and statues and make belief,
even though there will have to be a Supreme Court and apparently they
need a temple, but that's not really what it is about (IMHO).

Have a nice day.

   * End reply.

What a hopeless world.

-- 
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl