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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Ove Interest?
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2025 14:12:33 -0600
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On 3/5/2025 12:35 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 11:41:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/4/2025 11:41 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> The subject of this post was originally "home shootings" and it
>>> appears that you are now slip sliding away from this  subject as the
>>> Swiss data shows that you don't know what you are talking about.
>> John, YOU were the one who "slip slided" away from data on American home
>> shootings, by pivoting to Switzerland gun ownership and shooting deaths.
>> You pretended not to notice that Switzerland has far, far lower gun
>> ownership rates than the U.S., and also has far lower gun homicide rates
>> than the U.S.
>>
>> Let's "slip slide" back to the question at hand, OK? Does having a gun
>> in an American home make the home safer or more dangerous? IOW, does a
>> gun make it less likely someone will be shot (presumably by "bad guys")
>> or _more_ likely someone will be shot - usually by another member of the
>> household?
>>
>> The answer is: It's not even close. The guns make things more dangerous.
>> I've found NO data showing the gun makes a household safer. Instead:
>>
>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
>>
>> "For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally
>> justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven
>> criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
>>
>> Conclusions: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a
>> fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide
>> attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
>>
>> Or https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3762
>>
>> "Overall rates of homicide were more than twice as high among
>> cohabitants of handgun owners than among cohabitants of nonowners
>> (adjusted hazard ratio, 2.33 [95% CI, 1.78 to 3.05]). These elevated
>> rates were driven largely by higher rates of homicide by firearm
>> (adjusted hazard ratio, 2.83 [CI, 2.05 to 3.91]). Among homicides
>> occurring at home, cohabitants of owners had sevenfold higher rates of
>> being fatally shot by a spouse or intimate partner..."
>>
>> I can give more links - not that it will help. But those are two of the
>> studies that specifically set out to answer the question at hand. Other
>> studies found the same overall facts, and found they were true even in
>> "nice" neighborhoods, so don't pretend this is just a slum problem.
>>
>> These researchers came up with the questions above, and set out to
>> gather data and answer them. I've asked you several times how YOU would
>> answer the question in a scientific way.
>>
>> You've failed to answer that. So if you have data showing guns in the
>> house make it safer, post links already.
> 
> Easily munipulated "data" collected by gun haters.
> 
> Fact is that massive numbers of poeple live with guns in their homes
> with no problems.
> 
> --
> C'est bon
> Soloman


And yet something well past 100 million USAians are armed at 
home.
Last night for example:

https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2025-03-05-onlyfans-model-amouranth-opened-fire-on-thieves-during-robbery-attempt/

Some people feel firearms are unnecessary, that a kind word 
is enough. Again last night:

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/gas-station-clerk-shot-point-blank-in-l-a-county-robbery-attempt/

Let's score that. The armed woman shot the criminal and was 
unharmed. The unarmed clerk took a bullet point-blank and 
fortunately lived to become another victim of The Medical 
Billing Industry.

Peruse the situation, make your own decision.

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971