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From: Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: Python recompile
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2025 07:32:33 +0000
Organization: Fix this later
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On 06/03/2025 06:35, Stuart Redmann wrote:
> geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 3/3/25 10:22, James Kuyper wrote:
>>> On 03/03/2025 08:13, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 12:30:53 -0500
>>>> James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wibbled:
>>>>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2025 16:58:20 +0000, Muttley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 15:54:19 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> gabbled:
>>>>>>> First off, this isn't really on-topic for comp.lang.c, as it is a question
>>>>>>> regarding a linker, interacting
>>>>>>> with the results of various options given to a specific compiler.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a comp.lang.c.linker group?
>>>>>
>>>>> comp.lang.c is about using the C programming language. Linkers are
>>>>> independent of the programming language, and can be used to link
>>>>
>>>> Without compilers and linkers a C program would just be a load of text.
>>>
>>> Without computers, keyboards and monitors most C programs wouldn't be
>>> much use, either. That doesn't make a malfunctioning computer monitor a
>>> C problem. And it doesn't make a linkage problems a C problem either.
>>>
>>>>> together programs written in many different languages. The subject line
>>>>> and the text of the error messages indicate that it's a Python program,
>>>>> so why would a group devoted to C be in any way appropriate?
>>>>
>>>> If you'd taken 2 seconds to look at it you'd realise the issue was building
>>>> the Python source code which is written in C.
>>>
>>> The indentations of the first message cross-posted to comp.lang.c and
>>> comp.lang.c++ suggest that it was the latest in a series of earlier
>>> messages posted somewhere else (comp.lang.python?). Those earlier
>>> messages might have contained additional information. If that
>>> information was relevant, it should have been included when the message
>>> was first cross-posted to comp.lang.c or comp.lang.c++. You might be
>>> right about it being "Python source code ... written in C", but nothing
>>> in the messages that were posted here makes that obvious.
>>>
>>> That sounds like a C issue to me.
>>>
>>> If it were a C problem, then the C source code that produced the problem
>>> should have been shown. It's hard to debug code that you can't see.
>> Why is this group so intolerant?
>>
> 
> Members of this group are quite likely old (only old people remember Usenet
> it seems), maybe even retired. Old people are often a bit set in their way
> (correcting your grammar all the time, trying to force their political
> views on you, etc. etc.)
> 
> Also, programming tends to attract people that can handle highly formalized
> thinking, and thus also people who have OCD to a higher or lower degree.
> Think of them as if they were Sheldon. They probably don‘t see that their
> musings about topicality of your question won’t help you at all, they have
> simply hijacked your thread to discuss about whether linker problems are
> topical in this newsgroup (they could have done this in a separate thread).
> 
> I have to admit that this thread turned out to be the most interesting
> since a long time, although not for OP. It’s like the ramblings of an old
> man that you asked about help with your spark plugs and he ends up talking
> about his experiences during WWII. Don‘t take offense, nod politely, and
> find someone who’s actually going to help you ;-)

Firstly, you're talking to the wrong guy. The OP - the person who 
actually needs the help - is long gone. Muttley is just the 
juvenile delinquent from round the corner who likes to drop 
litter in the old folks' yards.

But you're right anyway. The OP does indeed need to "find someone 
who’s actually going to help you", which is why he needs to ask 
his question in the kind of group where building Python from 
source is the kind of question that attracts attention from 
experts in that area. So, instead of dead-heading the roses in 
the old folks' gardens, the very best help that Muttley could 
have offered the OP is to direct him to a group that's a better 
fit for the question. Or... hey... if he's so set on turning up 
his noise to annoy everyone *anyway*, why not just use the air 
time to answer the question himself?

Oh, yeah, we know that one, don't we? He can't, because he 
clearly doesn't know the answer, 'cos what kind of jerk who could 
walk the OP through his problem would have wasted so much time 
pissing in flower-beds instead?

> IIRC, there are two different ways of compiling code, position dependent or
> position independent (PIC). Apparently you cannot mix these two kinds of
> code into a single executable. So if you are using a library that has been
> compiled with PIC turned on, you’ll have to compile your code the same way.
> There should be a command line parameter/IDE setting to do so, depending on
> your toolchain.

And IYRI? Presumably in that circumstance you'd hope that a local 
expert would pick up on your error and offer a better steer to 
the OP. Preferably one who knows the ins and outs of the relevant 
toolchain, which is of course independent of the toolchain being 
used (linkers link object code, not source code, so they don't 
give a damn what source language was used).

So whaddya know? Turns out the old farts were right after all. 
How about that?

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within