Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Ove Interest?
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2025 08:44:38 -0600
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 3/6/2025 3:10 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 00:07:01 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/5/2025 11:38 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 19:31:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ownership of a firearm is one thing but being readily
>>>> accessible and ready to fire is another. Under many local
>>>> ordinances, firearms must be locked, which greatly stymies
>>>> defense when decisions are final in less than a second.
>>
>> Which reminds me of John's personal tale of a real home invasion. That
>> paragraph may explain (in part) why his gun did him no good at all. Only
>> the most fearful homeowner would keep his gun on his person just in case
>> someone burst into the home.
> 
> True, but having a gun close at hand does not necessarily mean it has
> to be on your person.
> 
>>>> Then there's software. Most firearms owners do not get
>>>> regular range time and so will more probably fumble away
>>>> decisive time or even shoot themselves than successfully
>>>> defend under sudden, immediate attack and under a wave of
>>>> adrenaline.
>>
>> Right. And even most target shooting for sport would probably do little
>> to prevent that fumbling, because it doesn't usually involve super-fast
>> grabbing the gun out of storage, quickly loading it, then quickly
>> hitting a target. Practicing skills is a highly specific exercise.
> 
> Having a gun locked up in storage makes it useless. Having a gun
> unloaded makes it almost as useless. Best practice is fully loaded,
> meaning one in the pipe and with safeties off.
> 
>>>> And then there's negligence and yes, sadly, would-be
>>>> defenders do shoot relatives and other innocents after
>>>> hearing a bump in the night.
>>
>> And it's not just mistaking innocents by mistake. I'm sure that a much
>> larger percentage of intra-household shooting victims are shot
>> deliberately. A thug of a husband gets furious at his wife and blows her
>> away.
> 
> Very rare. The majority of male violence to females regard fists and
> the notorious blunt objects. More likely the female has enough of the
> male abuser and blows him away. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
>> Good points in those three paragraphs.
>>
>>>> So while I'm generally supportive of firearms for self
>>>> defense, especially home defense, I recognize this is a
>>>> varied, complex and unclear area in many aspects.
>>>
>>> I came across this study just the other day
>>> https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
>>> a total of 420 home killing of which 209 were committed by firearm and
>>> 211 by other means.
>>>
>>> Now, any killing is a terrible thing but one has to view with some
>>> skepticism someone that ignores the major cause of death to emphasize
>>> the minor cause.
>>>
>>> Can his motives be viewed as impartial, or simply a means of
>>> emphasizing his own opinions.
>>
>> You're dancing away from the question at hand. I said all the data I've
>> found indicates a gun in the home makes the occupants less safe, and
>> more likely to be shot by that gun.
> 
> <LOL> Correlation does not imply causation.
> 
>> Your source said the same:  "After controlling for these
>> characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly
>> and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide
>> (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4).
>> Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or
>> intimate acquaintance.
>> "Conclusions: ... Rather than confer protection, guns kept in the home
>> are associated with an increase in the risk of homicide by a family
>> member or intimate acquaintance."
> 
> Nonsense, but I believe that illegal drugs kept in the house might by
> risky.
> 
>> You don't seem to realize that you've yet again corroborated my
>> position. You're failing at logic, John.
> 
> You get to believe whatever you want, but I notice that in spite of
> your continuous and monotonous rhetoric you've yet to convince anyone
> else.
> 
> "One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over
> again and expecting a different result."
> 
> Are you insane?
> 
> --
> C'est bon
> Soloman


+1

Most domestic homicides do not involve firearms:

Overnight news for example:
https://katv.com/news/local/two-year-old-girl-beaten-to-death-by-man-in-sevier-county-domestic-violence-case-murder-homicide-first-degree-battery-murder

https://local12.com/news/nation-world/killed-girlfriend-oncoming-traffic-highway-throwing-dragging-forcing-forced-her-boyfriend-man-interstate-crash-car-crashed-struck-by-crawled-shoulder-side-road-chase-blood-arrest-murder-murdered

https://truecrimenews.com/2025/03/05/texas-tarrant-jose-castaneda-evila-yanes-murder-girlfriend-sentenced/

There are multiple examples, every day and everywhere, and 
firearms are a rarity among them.

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971